558's Future.

[Dan4th]

No, I don't think so.......

D.

[Sooty655]

BUT!

And this is a Very BIG BUT!

(no offense, Sooty...)

The one thing that glues us all together and allows
a thread like this one where all the ideas and perspectives
and emotions can swirl around and bump up against
one another is that everyone loves the aircraft and
above all else wants to see her keep doing what she was
designed and built to do.

It's been such a long, twisty road and SUCH a long one
that I think all anyone wants at this particular point
in the timeline is just to see her fly -- any Way, any How!

This is a really outstanding thread and a tribute to
the basic greatness of this site and its forumeers!

Danf.

No offence taken, Dan4th.

I just feel that most of the passion and almost all of the discussion is about problems that needn't have happened. Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have anything except the wonderful aircraft to discuss.

All very good points, but you just know that someone will come online soon and decry what has been posted!

And what makes Iconic worthwhile is that they won't be moderated away, even though they think we should be.

[Xplumberlives]

Wonderful Sooty, let's hope you're correct!

[IanM]

I would think that 99% of people couldn't give a monkeys who operated the aircraft as long as it was in the air.

I don't really subscribe to the whole "I don't agree with the staffing so I'm not going to donate" argument as it is like saying "I want it to fly, but only on my own terms. If the people in charge aren't who I want them to be, then ground the thing".

I would think it was a far better idea for everyone to pull together and ignore their differences and get the thing flying again regardless as that is what we all want isn't it??

I want to see the Vulcan in the air again this year so I am trying to do everything I can to make that happen

I've kept quiet on these sort of topics so far as nothing is going to change or come out of people airing their views on internet forums.

This post is not aimed at anyone, nor is it meant to cause offence. It is just my view on things.

As for where I would like to see 558 end up, well 18 years ago I saw one of her last displays with the RAF and when she flew away I had no idea where she had gone or where she was going to until 2005 when I heard about the plan to fly again. So basically, wherever she goes, as long as I know where she is I'm happy

[Coastergirl]

So basically, wherever she goes, as long as I know where she is I'm happy

A valid point and a good way of looking at it.

[Xplumberlives]

I would think that 99% of people couldn't give a monkeys who operated the aircraft as long as it was in the air.

I don't really subscribe to the whole "I don't agree with the staffing so I'm not going to donate" argument as it is like saying "I want it to fly, but only on my own terms. If the people in charge aren't who I want them to be, then ground the thing".

I would think it was a far better idea for everyone to pull together and ignore their differences and get the thing flying again regardless as that is what we all want isn't it??

I want to see the Vulcan in the air again this year so I am trying to do everything I can to make that happen

I've kept quiet on these sort of topics so far as nothing is going to change or come out of people airing their views on internet forums.

This post is not aimed at anyone, nor is it meant to cause offence. It is just my view on things.

As for where I would like to see 558 end up, well 18 years ago I saw one of her last displays with the RAF and when she flew away I had no idea where she had gone or where she was going to until 2005 when I heard about the plan to fly again. So basically, wherever she goes, as long as I know where she is I'm happy

Commendable attitude Ian, I agree with you on most points but there is just one little problem, those running the show at the moment have continually failed to produce the goods, do you really think they might do better this or the NEXT time? I am not suggesting that 558 should be grounded because of this, but that someone else should be allowed a go!

Please note, I am not aiming this at ANY of the HANDS ON ENGINEERS!

[IanM]

Commendable attitude Ian, I agree with you on most points but there is just one little problem, those running the show at the moment have continually failed to produce the goods, do you really think they might do better this or the NEXT time? I am not suggesting that 558 should be grounded because of this, but that someone else should be allowed a go!

Please note, I am not aiming this at ANY of the HANDS ON ENGINEERS!

I can certainly see that point of view, please don't think that I can't. But what good is that going to do at this exact moment in time? The aircraft still needs cash and will do no matter who is pulling the strings. Lets get the money then make it clear afterwards that more changes need to be made.

I must say that I was quite relieved last year when the Trust went from a "we need to find a major sponsor" to a "we need money from anywhere" kind of approach. Although, rather disappointingly, they now seem to think that the public will bail the project out every time and they don't have to do anything.

My only worry is that is there any proof that anyone else can do much better?

[Xplumberlives]

Would be good to find out or we just go through all of this every year.

[Old Rigger]

Ian, firstly:

But what good is that going to do at this exact moment in time? The aircraft still needs cash and will do no matter who is pulling the strings. Lets get the money then make it clear afterwards that more changes need to be made.

Trouble is this point was made at the beginning of each year and each year this statement has been made, so the question is how many years of this response do we have to endure before things get changed?
bit like the education question I keep commenting on i.e how many more years of a flying Vulcan do we need before education actually does what it is supposed to do on the tin.

Secondly:

My only worry is that is there any proof that anyone else can do much better?

Is their any proof that there are others who could: a. do any worse or b. do any better as you have asked, I personally think the answer to both is yes.

From reading this type of post and knowing some of the people around the events, I believe there is a wealth of business/aircraft operational experience around the club/supporters/comittee/engineers etc who have 'been there, done that and got the T shirt' so it is up to them to stand up and be counted.

[Xplumberlives]

Further debate!

How long till someone arrives to tell us we shouldn't be conversing like this?

[Dougs]

Further debate!

How long till someone arrives to tell us we shouldn't be conversing like this?

you shouldn't be conversing like this 5mins!

[Xplumberlives]

Thank you!

[Dougs]

your welcome

looks to me like they will make this months deadline.

[Xplumberlives]

So then, on to the Trustees decision time!

[Mayfly]

This thread so far is very constructive, although some points have been discussed before - I see no reason for it to deteriorate. Every one is welcome to express their view and it can be done without turning it into a free for all or a bun fight.


Just short of £408k only £92K to go!!!


I believe the Trustees also need to be confident the additional money next month will also be realised.

[Xplumberlives]

Thanks for the figures your Ladyship!

[Dougs]

i dont like the way they have done the apeal targets it seem deliberately over complex so its hard to see the target levels being reached i hope the cash is raised as the engineering work HAS to be done running the aircraft is secondary at the moment.

the current operators are very good at getting the engineering organised, however not so good with the money side

[Xplumberlives]

Another valid point!

[Spitfire]

I hope she gets there - I really do - but IF she limps over the set 'target' the 'Itold you so' brigade will be out in force crowing loudly .....

So then my positive cash making suggestion will be that everyone whips smartly down to Ladbrokes to lay a bet that we'll be in the same position next year - then when we all win - as we surely will - it'll be much easier to raise the money next time ......(or will the odds be far too short )

[Mayfly]

Another valid point!

You sound like the chair of a debating committee XP

perhaps we need score cards!!!!

[Xplumberlives]

I hope she gets there - I really do - but IF she limps over the set 'target' the 'Itold you so' brigade will be out in force crowing loudly .....

So then my positive cash making suggestion will be that everyone whips smartly down to Ladbrokes to lay a bet that we'll be in the same position next year - then when we all win - as we surely will - it'll be much easier to raise the money next time ......(or will the odds be far too short )

Putting on money at such poor odds will not make much of a return!

[Dougs]

Another valid point!

You sound like the chair of a debating committee XP

perhaps we need score cards!!!!

Surely a Master Debater then?

[Gully]

If the February and March targets are achieved, that still does not guarantee a full season's flying as I read the income pie charts. It clears the engineering work and gets us into the season. There's the small matter of the 'identified, but not secured' income predominently associated with corporate 'events' / entertainment, which I would assume will be Michael Trotter's post-appeal priority.

Think we all (inc. the Trust if they are still around) have to face the fact that in the current market and without a commercial backer, fundraising for VTTS is just like every other charity - an all-year-round begging bowl. Which is not to detract from the need to have a vision / hook to attract sponsorship!

Gully

[Xplumberlives]

If the February and March targets are achieved, that still does not guarantee a full season's flying as I read the income pie charts. It clears the engineering work and gets us into the season. There's the small matter of the 'identified, but not secured' income predominently associated with corporate 'events' / entertainment, which I would assume will be Michael Trotter's post-appeal priority.

Think we all (inc. the Trust if they are still around) have to face the fact that in the current market and without a commercial backer, fundraising for VTTS is just like every other charity - an all-year-round begging bowl. Which is not to detract from the need to have a vision / hook to attract sponsorship!

Gully

Perhaps that is at the route of the problem, very difficult to sustain charitable income without something for the people to see. 558 is unfortunately out of sight and mind to the majority of people through most of the year!

[Old Rigger]

Gully, with regards to:

fundraising for VTTS is just like every other charity - an all-year-round begging bowl

I think we all understand this, but the applicable part 'all year round charity begging bowl' which last year was an opportunity lost as we became a vitcim of our own success with such a superb flying season and failed to capitalise on this success. This is another area that will have to change if 558 is to continue to thrill all and sundry in the future.