558's Future.

[Xplumberlives]

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that Gully.

[Gaz]

And for keeping it brief

[Za150]

Two very interesting arguments(in a good way) which both provide some thinking

[Coastergirl]

<snip>

2. The Club Committee has a responsibility to both members and the aircraft (completely clear in the constitution), with the latter support applying equally to '558's flying days and in subsequent 'retirement'. However, what the Club does not have is any influence or control over the destiny of '558 should the Trust go into administration / receivership, nor do we have any influence over '558's eventual resting place if the Trust continues to operate her until the end of her flying life is reached. Any suggestion that we do have any rights or powers is erroneous.

<snip>

Gully

So, the Club has no more control over her next move than I do or the guy who makes cheeseburgers at McDonalds? I can see that. I think that has been clear all along.

What I am wondering, is if the Club has explored any avenues for collaboration following the (potential) demise of the Trust? Have the Club approached or been approached by anyone, like DW or an aviation museum with a view to joining forces to ensure the best possible option for the next phase of '558's life?

The Club has declared its support for the Trust and as such probably cannot be seen to be looking at alternatives. The Club must have belief that this 'goal' is achievable in time and perhaps therefore don't see a need to think of
a back-up plan. My own belief is that this is foolish and just exploring options for future possibilities does not betray loyalty to the current set-up.

If, as you say (quote: "as it is ultimately the HLF's decision"), it will be the HLF's decision what happens to 558 then I wonder if they will invite 'offers' or 'tenders' for her purchase or management? An alliance between the Club and a commercial aircraft operator, just for example, would surely be a most favourable contender for the HLF to consider? However, there would be no sense in waiting until it all happens to make that alliance - that is the sort of thing we all used to bemoan the VOC for!! Remember the 7 P's!

That'll do for now, lol.

Rach x

[Checkflaps]

How nice to have a sensible discussion allowing everyone to have a viewpoint - no slagging off (YET), and some good points raised on both sides.

Whilst I don't expect a definitive answer on the future from anyone; afterall, why would one person know 'that' much more than others and then be expected to share it with us lot? It is making us all think about the possible implications of the next few weeks and then subsequent months / years.

I look forward to seeing where this discussion goes and ends up. Thanks also Gully for putting up a 'Club Committee' viewpoint. Whilst I'm not suggesting you are their official spokesperson - it is nice to hear from a member.

G

[Jigsaw]

How nice to have a sensible discussion allowing everyone to have a viewpoint

G

CF, Iconic is full of Mass Debators mate. Long may it continue

[Checkflaps]

How nice to have a sensible discussion allowing everyone to have a viewpoint

G

CF, Iconic is full of Mass Debators mate. Long may it continue

I'll take your word on the 'inmates' of Iconic.

G

[Xplumberlives]

Well he is the biggest mass debator in here!

[Mayfly]

and all with humour too!!!!

[Xplumberlives]

and all with humour too!!!!

SO FAR, but some members are not on line at the moment!

[Jigsaw]

Well he is the biggest mass debator in here!

Not the biggest mate, I just remember where I tucked it last time

[Sooty655]

Sooty can you tell us who told you she isn't going to China? ...........

Sorry, I couldn't possibly reveal my (sweet and sour) sauces.

Some how I think Sooty just isn't taking this seriously

You might think that, But I couldn't possibly comment.

[Checkflaps]

Well he is the biggest mass debator in here!

Looking at your stats XP, and in best westcountry accent - Are you sure?

G

[Xplumberlives]

I just post a lot!

[Old Rigger]

It has been a while to see such reasoned posts from two sides of the fence, with the support for both views being expressed in a polite sensible way. By the way from my perspective I also agree with Bubbles.

I wish it could be so on the VTSC forum, I decided to give in and submit a response to a thread and got a disgraceful PM in response, to which I decided that I no longer want to be part of something that breeds an us and them atmosphere and seems to promote a clique type environment where any person who expresses an opinion that is not praising the trust, or living in a big pink fluffy cloud, or hocking themselves to donate/pledge or asks 'awkward questions' is castigated publicly and privately as being negative, wanting the project to fail and worse. Then eventually someone infers that those negative people are criticizing the people who most of us are only staying around for - to support the engineers.

I have no doubt that a last minute donation will succeed in reaching the target as before and then all those who see no wrong in what has/is happening with all things 558 will no doubt do as they did last year, relax on their laurels with statements like 'see we told you we have the best people in charge and don't need any changes', told you you were being negative and then during and at the end of the flying it will be the same i.e. nothing except the efforts of the Vulcan Village Crew and volunteers to keep the funding effort going, then last minute panic for funding from the trust to get it flying in 2011. I look forward to being proven wrong this year.

Also to those that say education is dependent on a flying aircraft, I will say again; this is what we were told last year and we had our best years flying season and nothing happened so why with the same people in charge do you think it will be any different this year, in fact with some off the things that are still happening to some of our hard working colleagues it would appear that it is carry on as before, still. oh sorry I have just realised we probably cannot change them either because it is in the CAA rules, or the HLF rules or maybe we would not be where we are today if it was not for them.

[Xplumberlives]

Some interesting points there Mick!

[Nickolas]

Wow, what a fantastic thread.

Maybe it should be posted on the dark side (sorry if the title offends but that's the way I currently feel about the Trust NOT the Club) so that they can see that reasoned debate can take place without all the back biting and personal sniping.

A great read.

Thanks everyone.

[Bubbles]

I could also spend hours but I'm well aware how these discussions turn so i wont, however i will ask just how long do we support an organization that has shown on a numerous occasions that it is incapable of operating 558? Year after year of "pay up or we fold" appeals, the absolutely disgusting fiasco that was Waddington this year, and it wasn't just the the fact they ballsed the permit up either it was also the shoddy way it was announced, and no amount of P.R. spin can dress it up as anything other than a farce!

By doing what's best for the aeroplane doesn't mean carrying on raising funds for the current organisation, it is now simply throwing peoples hard earned money down the drain just to stave off what is the inevitable, better to end it now whilst there is still goodwill among people, there is noway we will survive another appeal like this. No doubt someone will come along with saying how things are changed etc, but if Gully is correct and the club has no say etc then wheres the change? what and who is different in the set up? I have seen nothing to suggest that this time next year we won't be in this mess again. I am not calling for heads to roll but i believe that any faith or trust in the current set up has gone and when that goes you've had it.

[Gaz]

Do we know what the fate of the club will be if/when the trust folds?

I would hope that plans are afoot to, at least, split from the trust (I know they are separate entities, but the club supports the trust) and keep a hand on the aircraft.

I, for one, believe that the club is a massive incentive for any potential buyer of the aircraft

[Bubbles]

The club is going to support 558 where ever she ends up, The club also could have influence if it was teamed with the right people and/organisations.

[Checkflaps]

Bubbs.

We all know how much you have done for the aircraft and operation before and after the restoration. Hopefully, if any committe members have taken 'offense' they will take the comments as they were meant - as you have clarified since - and you can move on and still remain friends.

In my mind, it is funny how one aircraft can generate so much 'passion' in people. Having looked around the other forums. there is no other aircraft that generates as much discussion as XH558 - and then by some margin. If only that level of interest could be transformed into £s.

Lets hope this discussion will run for a while in its current honest and open format.

G

[Sploosher]

and all with humour too!!!!

as some of you may realise, my sense of humour is rathy whacky........................

[Sooty655]

In my mind, it is funny how one aircraft can generate so much 'passion' in people. Having looked around the other forums. there is no other aircraft that generates as much discussion as XH558 - and then by some margin.

That could be because 558 is one of the few historic aircraft discussed on aviation forums that is actually (sometimes) airworthy, but I suspect the amount of "passion" and discussion generated may be most closely related to the various examples of spectacular mis-management we have all seen.

[Dan4th]

BUT!

And this is a Very BIG BUT!

(no offense, Sooty...)

The one thing that glues us all together and allows
a thread like this one where all the ideas and perspectives
and emotions can swirl around and bump up against
one another is that everyone loves the aircraft and
above all else wants to see her keep doing what she was
designed and built to do.

It's been such a long, twisty road and SUCH a long one
that I think all anyone wants at this particular point
in the timeline is just to see her fly -- any Way, any How!

This is a really outstanding thread and a tribute to
the basic greatness of this site and its forumeers!

Danf.

[Xplumberlives]

All very good points, but you just know that someone will come online soon and decry what has been posted!