558 Funding Update

[Xplumberlives]

Not touchy at all, just want an even playing field!

[Sooty655]

Well said DB

Never ever give up!! To many people on here seam to want the project to fail and/or just point fingers at people.

Like many i dont have much spare cash but i will continue to do what i can.

(Ps Yamahas rule DB!!)

I don't think anyone on here WANTS the business to fail, mostly we are sick and tired of watching the management dig themselves into un-necessary holes and then beg to be got out of them (or we'll sack the troops, threat, threat).
As for pointing fingers, if they ask for it, I for one will point.

Is there any reason for the highlighting 'Seam' and 'Dont' or are you pointing out my bad spelling?

Of course. I have to defend my position in the Pedants' League.

Also if you think the management are digging themself un-necessary holes, what would you do instead?

I would employ properly qualified and experienced personnel in senior positions, in the expectation that sensible decision making would follow.
I wouldn't use up virtually all the fatigue life before I started to look at funding options to extend it.
I wouldn't immobilise the aircraft without all the funding in place to restore mobility.
I wouldn't EVER attempt to blackmail donors by threatening to sack the troops.
If I had to give the troops notice, it would be on the day I resigned, taking my entire expensive management team with me.

[Xplumberlives]

Well said Sooty, a very good answer!

[Za150]

Well said DB

Never ever give up!! To many people on here seam to want the project to fail and/or just point fingers at people.

Like many i dont have much spare cash but i will continue to do what i can.

(Ps Yamahas rule DB!!)

I don't think anyone on here WANTS the business to fail, mostly we are sick and tired of watching the management dig themselves into un-necessary holes and then beg to be got out of them (or we'll sack the troops, threat, threat).
As for pointing fingers, if they ask for it, I for one will point.

Is there any reason for the highlighting 'Seam' and 'Dont' or are you pointing out my bad spelling?

Of course. I have to defend my position in the Pedants' League.

Also if you think the management are digging themself un-necessary holes, what would you do instead?

I would employ properly qualified and experienced personnel in senior positions, in the expectation that sensible decision making would follow.
I wouldn't use up virtually all the fatigue life before I started to look at funding options to extend it.
I wouldn't immobilise the aircraft without all the funding in place to restore mobility.
I wouldn't EVER attempt to blackmail donors by threatening to sack the troops.
If I had to give the troops notice, it would be on the day I resigned, taking my entire expensive management team with me.

Thanks for pointing out my bad spelling, something i cant help being the thicko i am

I would employ properly qualified and experienced personnel in senior positions, in the expectation that sensible decision making would follow.
How many people out in the world have experience of running a complex aero enginneering project like this?

I wouldn't use up virtually all the fatigue life before I started to look at funding options to extend it.
Do you think they did this on purpose? Lots of factors led to this including flying in lower airspace on transit as the VRF rules state, weather, flying a different routine to pervious seasons and therefore not knowing what effect this would be plus other factors (Taffs presentation lists others)

I wouldn't immobilise the aircraft without all the funding in place to restore mobility.
To i point i agree with you, but the fact that many of the parts on the leg required reverse manufacturing to original standards (as dictated by the CAA) maybe they thought that getting the leg of early would save them money in the long run and give the manufacturer more time to overhaul the leg?

I wouldn't EVER attempt to blackmail donors by threatening to sack the troops.
I dont think he was blackmailing anyone, i think he was stating the situation the trust is in. If he hadn't come out and told the facts he would probibly end up getting accused of not 'displaying' all the facts later on. A no win situation for him. Do you think he sleeps easy at night knowing he may have to give people there notice?

If I had to give the troops notice, it would be on the day I resigned, taking my entire expensive management team with me.
Do you think a new management team could come in and do any better for less money? I for one dont think you could. This is a project that has never been done before. The fact is this management team got her into the sky when other people said it would never happen.

sooty655, i relise that you may not agree with anything i have put above, but while my veiws are wholley different to yours, i still respect your views and opinions.

[Nickolas]

Blimey..
One of the politest 'I beg to differ' posts I have ever read.

[Za150]

Blimey..
One of the politest 'I beg to differ' posts I have ever read.

I dont like to get silly and start ranting and raving, its just not me! I believe everybodys opinion should be respected wether or not its the same as yours.

[Sooty655]

I would employ properly qualified and experienced personnel in senior positions, in the expectation that sensible decision making would follow.
How many people out in the world have experience of running a complex aero enginneering project like this?

Many people have experience of running complex engineering businesses, which is what this is. I'm not convinced the present management have experience of ANYTHING relevant.

I wouldn't use up virtually all the fatigue life before I started to look at funding options to extend it.
Do you think they did this on purpose? Lots of factors led to this including flying in lower airspace on transit as the VRF rules state, weather, flying a different routine to pervious seasons and therefore not knowing what effect this would be plus other factors (Taffs presentation lists others)

I don't think they did it on purpose, but I also don't believe it happened on the last flight of the season. A competent engineering management, knowing that the problem was coming, would have been monitoring, planning and fundraising from mid-season at the latest.

I wouldn't EVER attempt to blackmail donors by threatening to sack the troops.
I dont think he was blackmailing anyone, i think he was stating the situation the trust is in. If he hadn't come out and told the facts he would probibly end up getting accused of not 'displaying' all the facts later on. A no win situation for him. Do you think he sleeps easy at night knowing he may have to give people there notice?

I have no idea how he sleeps. Perhaps we read his missives differently. I see the fact he chooses to specifically raise the issue of redundancy every time he wants more money as cynical manipulation of people's goodwill.

If I had to give the troops notice, it would be on the day I resigned, taking my entire expensive management team with me.
Do you think a new management team could come in and do any better for less money? I for one dont think you could. This is a project that has never been done before. The fact is this management team got her into the sky when other people said it would never happen.

Yes, I do think a new management team could do better, and cheaper. Of course it's only my opinion; you are perfectly entitled to yours.

[Za150]

I dont wish to get into a game of tit for tat. its not something i like to do, So im going to refain from posting many more on this subject.

I can feel many people on here waiting to have a pop at me and my views!!!

[Dan4th]

Not at all, and if anyone Does get out of
line like that, cooler heads will prevail.

This isn't that type of Forum, and anyone
can say what's on their mind or in their
heart.......

Dan4th

[Checkflaps]

I dont wish to get into a game of tit for tat. its not some i like to do, So im going to refain from posting many more on this subject.

I can feel many people on here waiting to have a pop at me and my views!!!

Following on from Dan4th, I think this is the friendliest forum going (pedantry aside ) and the fact that everyone has a valid opinion of goings on within the vulcan world makes it good thing. Some are obviously closer to the XH558 saga than others, and may know more than most of us of the day to day happenings and thus appear to be 'spikier'. If one person here ,or on another forum, has questions or opinions that may not sit well 'higher up the chain' they probably are not the only ones thinking it - and I would much rather have a sensible discussion covering both viewpoints in the open, than have someone rant off, say their bit and have no-one there to put a counter argument to it.

So, in essence, ZA150, please keep on posting 'counter' points - it makes reading this particular thread much more interesting AND balanced - unlike some places/bandwagons we could all mention. As for having a pop - not my thing really.

G

[Yorkie]

I Agree with the previous two posts.

This is the friendliest forum that I have been on, and one where debate can happen without people falling out.

There are people on here that are either closer to the project or know the ins and out's of how a trust works. not only is it good discussion, we also learn a few things.

Lets keep posting. and lets keep the discussion going, who knows we may even come up with a solution.

like Dan4th says, if it gets out of hand, cooler heads will provail.

[Jigsaw]

One of the politest 'I beg to differ' posts I have ever read.

Spot on mate. It's so refreshing to read differing opinions without the personal pops at one another.

Carry on

[Xplumberlives]

One of the politest 'I beg to differ' posts I have ever read.

Spot on mate. It's so refreshing to read differing opinions without the personal pops at one another.

Carry on

Says you!

[Jigsaw]

One of the politest 'I beg to differ' posts I have ever read.

Spot on mate. It's so refreshing to read differing opinions without the personal pops at one another.

Carry on

Says you!

LMAO. We all have our off days mate

[Za150]

Thanks guys

[Mayfly]

I have never posted my views on the management but one of the biggest problems IMHO is the impression they give that the management style is REACTIVE as opposed to PROACTIVE.

Why that is I have no idea, I do know things are not as clear cut underneath as some seem to to think it is [armchair pilots on other fora] but on the surface it's wait for a crisis & then seek a solution............

[Code monkey]

I have never posted my views on the management but one of the biggest problems IMHO is the impression they give that the management style is REACTIVE as opposed to PROACTIVE.

Why that is I have no idea, I do know things are not as clear cut underneath as some seem to to think it is [armchair pilots on other fora] but on the surface it's wait for a crisis & then seek a solution............

I think that's hit the nail on the head, MF! I don' know what goes on within the trust but, as you say, the impression given is one of crisis management and a failure to plan. Even if that is not the case, that is certainly the impression created and that cannot help our cause. I for one hope it is an inaccurate one and that, behind the scenes, a lot of cool, calm, forward-thinking is going on.

[Sploosher]

Well said Sooty, a very good answer!

I will second that...................

and a failure to plan is planning to fail in my book...........

[PhantomAviator]

I have just seen on the main page of the other side that there is a Count Down to Closure clock.

I take it then that that was a major decision that was made.

If this is the case then the work that is now in progress, (I seem to have seen somewhere that they have started on the U/C strip and rebuild), which possibly will not be finished until after the 27 day deadline, will end up away from the airframe and there may be a fight to get it back.

Could someone throw more light on this matter?

[Spitfire]

I have never posted my views on the management but one of the biggest problems IMHO is the impression they give that the management style is REACTIVE as opposed to PROACTIVE.

Why that is I have no idea, I do know things are not as clear cut underneath as some seem to to think it is [armchair pilots on other fora] but on the surface it's wait for a crisis & then seek a solution............

To true - said it before - known in management circles as fire fighting not fire prevention

[Sooty655]

I have never posted my views on the management but one of the biggest problems IMHO is the impression they give that the management style is REACTIVE as opposed to PROACTIVE.

Why that is I have no idea, I do know things are not as clear cut underneath as some seem to to think it is [armchair pilots on other fora] but on the surface it's wait for a crisis & then seek a solution............

To true - said it before - known in management circles as fire fighting not fire prevention

Except that this mob don't even fight the fires, they just beg for more money to buy water.

[Saracenman]

...To true.....

[Dan4th]

David's a Moderator now.....

He doesn't NEED to proofread......

D.

[Mayfly]

Thanks D4th nice to see it in writing

[Xplumberlives]

David's a Moderator now.....

He doesn't NEED to proofread......

D.

No, but apparently we do!