558 Funding Update

[Old Rigger]

I have no intention of mocking anyone, I have never given any cause to suggest that I would not continue, until the bitter end, to support the engineers/crew and club in keeping 558 where she should be, but I personally have no more to give than what i continue to give, so just feel helpless and frustrated.

PS: With all the excuses that have been used for the lack of funding in the past, I am just waiting for the last one and see how many people get accused of letting the side down, being against the business and causing it to fail, if it actually does does of course.

[Sploosher]

SM.

I totally agree with what you wrote in your last post.
Education must be one of the top priority things to do for 558.
The country needs to know how important she and her like were to us, but to have the education side stopped in their tracks by stupid things like CRB checks and paperwork, and people who do not know whether or not they are coming or going.

We (and 558) do not need all this, the populace know more about 558 after the last 2 years on the display circuit, but they need to know how to give/donate/pledge so that she can continue this for the next 8 or so years.

We do not need all this fighting within the club,trust etc that is holding all this back, what we need is (dedicated)people who are here because they care about 558.

I nearly gave up supporting 558 earlier this year, but after watching the `Vulcan Effect` dvd, i have decide to carry on supporting her, mainly because my late father worked on them, and it is a fitting monument to him.

If he was still alive today, he would be disgusted at they way things are going, he is probably looking down at the present management team and tinking what the hell are they doing.

Hopefully the `depression` will not last much longer,despite what all the doom and gloom merchants out there are saying, and that some major sponsor will realise the importance of 558.

[Thumper]

After reading all of this I am officially resigning from donating any more money to 558 until someone knows how to handle the project. I am sick to death of it being forced down my throat everywhere I look, I thought Jehova's Witnesses were pestering but this is getting beyond a joke now. I also detect a hint that I should feel guilty as it will be MY fault for not donating if she never flies again. I have generously donated to 558... or should that be VTTS throughout the year and I'm sorry but I am not "throwing away" any more money on a project thats run by people who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

I also do not want to be politically labelled an activist. I am a 558 Supporter and Fan.

[Pujgnie]

So when do you propose we set about restructuring the posts of those listed above, you yourself have said it is the 'last chance saloon' time for 558? Was there ever really a realistic prospect of gaining a Major Sponsor?

JMO

Let's just get 558 back in the air for 2010.... that is the important bit.

As for restructuring - I am in no position to say what it may or may not involve. (I don't do the hiring and firing.. )
Sponsorship... admit bad timing for 558 to reappear on the circuit - but hey ho........ 2010 may see someone stepping foward. Only time will tell...

Moral is : No Fly - No See - No Sponsor.

[Saracenman]

but Pudgeyknees - these issues which you want to sort out 'in the fullness of time' are the exact same issues which have pervaded for several years now - the exact same issues which are the CAUSE of 558 being in this perilous situation yet again.

it happens over and over again, with the very same people at 'the top' - if they are not addressed as the pivotal part of putting 558 back in the air, then 558 is doomed

you're a plumber/heating engineer - if you encounter a leaking boiler, do you simply ignore the cause of the water loss and keep keep topping the system up when the pressure drops, or do you switch the water off, drain the system and FIX THE LEAK?

sm

[Air]

Surely though if you want these people mentioned sacked, then your club should be putting forward a vote of no confidence to the trust and getting things changed.

If, as may happen it goes under, everyone loses their jobs and we all lose a flying Vulcan.

[Saracenman]

i wish we could - sadly the VTST employees are not accountable to the VTS Club, or its members

only the Trustees themselves have the theoretical power to solve the problem

sm

[Pujgnie]

I give up with this thread now.

GET THIS CLEAR - I do NOT profess to know how to turn things around managerial... that's NOT my job, and never will be.

I WANT to see 558 again this year. Some of you may not - or feel indifferent. (That's your choice)

I will be doing my bit for her.

That's all I'm saying on the matter. End of.

[Xplumberlives]

So when do you propose we set about restructuring the posts of those listed above, you yourself have said it is the 'last chance saloon' time for 558? Was there ever really a realistic prospect of gaining a Major Sponsor?

JMO

Let's just get 558 back in the air for 2010.... that is the important bit.

As for restructuring - I am in no position to say what it may or may not involve. (I don't do the hiring and firing.. )
Sponsorship... admit bad timing for 558 to reappear on the circuit - but hey ho........ 2010 may see someone stepping foward. Only time will tell...

Moral is : No Fly - No See - No Sponsor.

Can I borrow your ROSE TINTED SPECTACLES please?

[PhantomAviator]

i wish we could - sadly the VTST employees are not accountable to the VTS Club, or its members

only the Trustees themselves have the theoretical power to solve the problem

sm

Not much hope of that then.
When I was at TVOC I put forward my observations and nothing was done then.

If I had been listened to at the time then they would not be looking at having the U/C seals being backward engineered again. (more cost).
They would be in stock on the shelf.

So much wasted in the past and I foresee this continuing in the future.

I always spoke of a 10 year maintainance and flying program not a year to year thing.

[Air]

i wish we could - sadly the VTST employees are not accountable to the VTS Club, or its members

only the Trustees themselves have the theoretical power to solve the problem

sm

Right, so why isn't the club putting pressure on the trust to get these people removed?

With all due respect, just constantly moaning on an internet forum isn't going to resolve the issues.
A plan of action is required if you feel so passionately about this.

[Saracenman]

oh don't worry - i don't just moan on a forum!

the main issue with the Trustees, until very recently, was that the Chairman of the Trustees was the same man who is CEO - Dr. Pleming.

just who were the Club supposed to put pressure on?

thankfully, he stepped down as Trustee Chairman a few weeks ago, and has been succeeded by a chap named John Sharman, who has a business background and wants to be very much hands on with the daily operation of VTST

Dr. Pleming still remains as CEO unfortunately

sm

[Air]

So will the club put pressure on now that John Sharman is chairman of the trust?
I'm presuming of course that your views are shared by the club.

Dr Pleming is standing down shortly anyway isn't he?

I'm neutral regarding all of this as I just don't know the people involved, but some sort of action would be better than hearing the constant moans everytime Pleming gives a weekly-ish update.

[Xplumberlives]

So will the club put pressure on now that John Sharman is chairman of the trust?
I'm presuming of course that your views are shared by the club.

Dr Pleming is standing down shortly anyway isn't he?

That has been on the cards for quite a while now!

[Saracenman]

i would like to think they'll be piling the pressure on now that there's someone who's keen to listen!

i spoke with our Club Chairman, Richard Clarke, at some length about all this, at the Club Christmas do. i believe that there are many within the Club who share my views, and are equally keen to have some long standing questions answered and issues urgently resolved

as far as Dr. Pleming stepping down from his CEO position - whilst he did promise it in the last Club magazine, he's showing no signs of going anywhere just yet. i, and many others, firmly believe that he is the only one who cannot see that his stepping down might be the shot in the arm the VTS business needs - i think he feels that he's the one who needs to sit tight at times like these, to 'steer' the business out of trouble

sm

[Air]

Rightly or wrongly, it must be hard for Dr Pleming to let go given he's put so much of his life into it.

[Panel 10]

I think it should be remembered that Dr Pleming and Management team have identified £1.6M for the 2010 season. That isn't too bad considering they only had an incomplete 2008 season to build on! Without it the supporters would have had to raise the whole 2.4M themselves. With a 2010 flying season as successful as last year I'm sure this can be built on for 2011. I think that's brilliant management, £1.6M from virtually nothing and shows their new business model working Not bad for a so called dysfunctional management. It is a pity that some can't or won't understand that.

It has to be said there can be NO Education project without a serviceable flying Vulcan to lead it forwards and the Trust have their priorities right in concentrating the funding to that target at this present time, IMHO. Surely the advocates for the Education Programme can see that and like true 558 supporters, start putting their mouths on hold and their hands in their pockets instead of the other way round.

No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education.

[Xplumberlives]

Righty ho, that's done it for me!

[PhantomAviator]

I think it should be remembered that Dr Pleming and Management team have identified £1.6M for the 2010 season. That isn't too bad considering they only had an incomplete 2008 season to build on! Without it the supporters would have had to raise the whole 2.4M themselves. With a 2010 flying season as successful as last year I'm sure this can be built on for 2011. I think that's brilliant management, £1.6M from virtually nothing and shows their new business model working Not bad for a so called dysfunctional management. It is a pity that some can't or won't understand that.

It has to be said there can be NO Education project without a serviceable flying Vulcan to lead it forwards and the Trust have their priorities right in concentrating the funding to that target at this present time, IMHO. Surely the advocates for the Education Programme can see that and like true 558 supporters, start putting their mouths on hold and their hands in their pockets instead of the other way round.

No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education, No Vulcan, NO Education.

Put like that I must start believing that the earth is still flat and if you sail to far from where you start you will fall off.

Politics or blinkers in a fixed position?

Re-reading.
Who's fault was it that they only had part of the first flying season to work on?
Who raised the rest of the 2.4M?
As I read it 0.8M by Jan, 1.6 by the end Feb, 2.4 by the end March.
We can all juggle things to read how we would like them to read.

[Gully]

As I posted on t'other side...

With regards to the £1.6m of 'planned' income as you describe it, I have to disagree that this is a fabulous achievement. The reality of the situation (which is very clear from the 2010 pie charts) is that the Trust has £800k of income secured for 2010 - exactly the same position as this time last year, despite an extremely successful flying season in 2009. In other words, no substantial progress has been made to move the business onto a sustainable financial footing. The other £800k is 'planned' income, ie. unsecured, with £500k of that being under the heading "commercial sponsorship". I would like to know what progress has been made towards securing this sum in addition to the £800k appeal: both are critical if a full flying season is to be delivered in 2010.

As for Vulcan first, Education after, I fundamentally disagree. A sound education programme has the potential to attract sponsorship from a wide variety of sources and deliver the 'inspiring the future' element of the strapline. For example, the likes of the supermarket chains get involved in education because they want their brands to be associated with benefitting the youth of today. By contrast, the past 2 years have demonstrated that the aircraft alone has a limited sponsorship appeal, irrespective of the financial climate. In my opinion, the education programme could and should have been developed during the restoration phase: a flying '558 being the outreach element of an otherwise stand-alone cold war and engineering education programme.

Gully

[Spitfire]

By contrast, the past 2 years have demonstrated that the aircraft alone has a limited sponsorship appeal, irrespective of the financial climate. In my opinion, the education programme could and should have been developed during the restoration phase: a flying '558 being the outreach element of an otherwise stand-alone cold war and engineering education programme.[/i]

Gully

Hear hear

[Saracenman]

....... Surely the advocates for the Education Programme can see that and like true 558 supporters, start putting their mouths on hold and their hands in their pockets instead of the other way round.....

what a condescending and ignorant man you really are Panel 10

as arguably the biggest advocate of 558's educational importance, i HAVE put my hands in my pocket on far too many occasions. in fact, with my current scheme aimed directly at engaging young people (which the Trust picked up on themselves as ticking their own education box) i am currently out of pocket to the tune of a four-figure sum

all was very nicely on track to not only engage said young people, but also generate quantities of CASH for 558. so far, what should already be nearly £20,000, is a mere fraction of that - why? because the current so-called Education Manager actively sought to block my (and the Club's) endeavours to the extent that over four months of valuable FUND RAISING TIME has been utterly wasted

even at minimum wage, if i were to add up all the hours, days, weeks and months that i have GIVEN 558 and the Club, it would be a VERY considerable amount. there are countless others just like me!

even if i wanted to, i couldn't ever hope to generate £20,000 for 558 by simply dipping into my pocket - very few of us could - but through many months of hard work and commitment to 558 and our Club, i CAN generate such figures

there is only one reason that 558 is out of pocket to this amount - Miriam Tong! well two reasons actually - her and her manager Andrew Edmondson! actually make that three reasons - his manager Dr. Pleming!

what gives YOU the right to lecture ME on my responsibilities helping to pay her/their salary?

sm

[Xplumberlives]

I eagerly await your answer Panel 10

[RLN]

It would be interesting if Dr. Pleming was invited onto "The Apprentice". Wonder what Sir Allan Sugar would say.

[MadNaddy]

Surely though if you want these people mentioned sacked, then your club should be putting forward a vote of no confidence to the trust and getting things changed.

If, as may happen it goes under, everyone loses their jobs and we all lose a flying Vulcan.

I have been saying that, along with others, for a very long time! But, when push came to shove (pardon the pun) people just didn't stand up to be counted

So, I got up and started helping out as and when I could.

But now - well, I'll just not say anything about anything because I'm Naddy and that's just NOT ALLOWED!