558 Funding Update

[Air]

After reading the racist comments from the Clubs Vice Chairman on another forum, I wouldn't touch the club with a barge pole.

would you care to elaborate?

as far as I'm aware, Mr. Dickon Dearman is the Vulcan to the Sky Club's Vice Chairman - it he to whom you refer?

sm

Yeah, there was a thread on UKAR about Hitler and he posted some comments about immigrants, 'Churchill spinning in his grave' etc. I didn't know who he was at the time, but the other posters named him as the VTS Vice chairman.
TBH, regardless of his personal opinions, as Vice Chairman of the club he should have known better than to get involved.
It's not just the management shooting themselves in the foot.

[Dan4th]

As I mentioned before, this is a self-policing
forum and, as you see, everything is working
itself out and both sides of the story are
emerging. If every post were to include a
synopsis for those who came in late, our
word count would go through the roof!

Regarding the Club, I would say it's perhaps
not justified to paint the entire board with
one brush due to the unfortunate statements
attributed to one member. I am of the opinion,
as are others on here, that the Club may well
be 558's Last, Best Hope.

Danf.

[Exceptionalsleeper]

of course you're right - that's the sole reason for the Club's existence

BUT..........

whilst the Trust management would continually have you believe that they are the ONLY chance 558 has in the future, think about one thing - if the Trust were to go into administration, would that also drag the Club down too?

558's MOST valuable 'asset' is the Club - if the receivers end up being called in, a new management team COULD be put together, and 558 COULD be kept on the back burner until all the ducks are in line. the Club would play a central role in that.

it is the CLUB, not the Trust, which holds the future of 558 in the palm of its hand. 558 is always touted as "The people's Aeroplane" - 'The People' are the Club - we Club members

i have every reason under the sun to see the instant demise of the Trust management, but i remain a supporter of 558, the Aeroplane, and the best way to show that support is through my Club membership

sm

I fully agree but it wouldn't feel right as indirectly I would be paying for Andrew to have a nice fat turkey for Xmas!

[Air]

Regarding the Club, I would say it's perhaps
not justified to paint the entire board with
one brush due to the unfortunate statements
attributed to one member. I am of the opinion,
as are others on here, that the Club may well
be 558's Last, Best Hope.

Danf.

I agree, but when that member is the Vice Chairman then it's a bit different.
Someone in a position like that is regarded as a public face of the club and should behave accordingly.
Although he wasn't posting as the Club VC, people didn't take long to bring the fact up, and frankly it's another negative the club doesn't need right now when getting the public onside is such a priority.

[Ducati Boy]

I understood of your plight Pat at the time and I was sorry at your misfortune, I hope you are much better? With you OOA I would assume others would have taken the matter under their wing. There wasn't much engineering to be done since the last landing was back in Nov 08 and the winter servicing didn't start until Apr 09, Taff often promised he would sort it.

I understand shit happens but good volunteers are at a premium and need to be looked after. I would have done anything, keep me in the right mood and I am as loyal as they come. Still, too late now.

It was the Great War - a War to end all Wars, however, Hitler saw that the Jewish question needed to be answered...

Got to agree about Volunteers, ask them and I hope they will confirm that I have always valued them. Without them we, the engineers, would not have had enough time to actually fix the kite. To them I say again thanks folks, some of us do appreciate you.

However, I think we all see your point of view, but as a self imposed exile from the club, about the best you can do is go on and on and on ad infinitum on a forum, complaining without actually achieving the change you want. Inside the club you can garner support for your point of view, use the constitution to call extraordinary meetings and call votes of confidence in those who run the show on your behalf or those employed by them. That is democracy, use it because those who would destroy it love it when good men do nothing practical against them. Anyway, Pax,Pax Pax, on the issue you must do what you will, I withdraw from the subject, weary, but undefeated.

Personally, I am more concerned about what you mean by "Hitler saw that the Jewish question had to be answered"?? Seems to me that Hitler, just like the British Nasty Party and other distasteful beings who worship his policies, had only uncivilised, barbaric answers to his insane imagined problems. I'm off to clean me gun in case they get into power.

[Saracenman]

agreed Danf

Air - an individual's comment, such as that to which you referred, is quite obviously no reflection on the Club as an organisation

VTS Club is a group of EXTREMELY dedicated people who typically volunteer many hours and days of their lives, often at their own cost, to carry out Club activities. I'd like to include myself in the ranks of the volunteers, but there are countless others who do FAR more than i do. i give my support in other ways

it is important to remember just why these volunteers NEED the continued support of other Club members, and the public as a whole.

at the end of this year the Club will have generated several hundreds of thousands of Pounds - all for the benefit of 558

many of us have been fed up with funding the salaries of some who regularly APPEAR to be far less committed than some of the volunteers.

the bottom line is quite simple - without the current VTST management, 558 still has a good chance for the future - without the Club, however, 558 has NO chance!

please ignore the inappropriate comments of individuals, understand the ineptitude of the management, but PLEASE continue to support OUR Club!

sm

[Dan4th]

Just to place this all in perspective, I would say
that any statements made by the Vice Chairman
outside of his Club capacities pale in significance
when compared to the prospect of 558 never flying
again. It is a nit on the posterior of an Heffalump,
if I may draw an analogy. Granted, the Club is just
now trying to shake-off its Church Fundraiser
Mentality and emerge with a True Business Mindset.

Would you really, Air, completely reject the Club as
a worthy entity due to this one unfortunate statement
from one member outside of his official capacity?
Sounds mighty stern and inflexible to me!

Danf.

[Exceptionalsleeper]

"Hitler saw that the Jewish question had to be answered"

Which led to WW2 and various other Wars in the aftermath, nothing meant in an offensive manner.

[Ducati Boy]

"Hitler saw that the Jewish question had to be answered"

Which led to WW2 and various other Wars in the aftermath, nothing meant in an offensive manner.

Good show, I'll put the 'ole .303 SMLE back in the rack then.

[Air]

Would you really, Air, completely reject the Club as
a worthy entity due to this one unfortunate statement
from one member outside of his official capacity?
Sounds mighty stern and inflexible to me!

Like I said, being VC of the club surely comes with certain responsibilities.
One of those being not bring the clubs name into disrepute.
People were very quick to name and shame him with being associated with the club.

Another point I've thought about is does the membership fee (£24?) for the club allow for gift aid?

If not then surely it's best to donate that money directly to the Vulcan and they can claim the gift aid back, than pay for club membership and allow HMGov take their slice of the pie thus the Vulcan gets less?

Another point of course is if the current appeal fails and the trust folds and the Vulcan is grounded, then there's absolutely no point having a club anyway.

[Exceptionalsleeper]

"Hitler saw that the Jewish question had to be answered"

Which led to WW2 and various other Wars in the aftermath, nothing meant in an offensive manner.

Good show, I'll put the 'ole .303 SMLE back in the rack then.

Good choice but, you need a Bren and Sten submachine gun in your arsenal, the Jerries don't like it up'em!

[Ducati Boy]

"Hitler saw that the Jewish question had to be answered"

Which led to WW2 and various other Wars in the aftermath, nothing meant in an offensive manner.

Good show, I'll put the 'ole .303 SMLE back in the rack then.

Good choice but, you need a Bren and Sten submachine gun in your arsenal, the Jerries don't like it up'em!

Quite so, I find 18" of best Sheffield attached to four feet of Enfield has a salutary effect on most potential adversaries.

[PiperArrow28]

OK, I have stood by long enough and thought I should comment before this goes totally off the rails again.....
I thought this was the Funding Update thread that I am very much involved in trying to promote "on the other side"?

One persons own private comments (and DD has admitted his mistake and apologised) both to Club, Trust and the posters in that thread, will never sway any "decisions" that the Club committee will make. Politics never ever comes up in our meetings - nor should they! We have 14 or more members from a wide variety of backgrounds and always take the majority view.

I agree entirely with SM and Dan4th here... it has no bearing on Vulcan business and for the life of me can't understand why it needs to be brought up again. Do you not think "we" have taken action over this and expressed that it "will not happen again!" ? That should be the end of the matter. FULL STOP!

We have a very strong Club Committee and are indeed now running a very successful business. We need to continue increasing turnover to be able to make a more meaningful contribution to funding the project - a 100% increase in donations in just 12 months, might just give you an insight into how effective we are.

To answer AIR with regard to the Gift Aid element, this is something we are looking into, but there are many complications to this and accounting procedures to put in place. Right now, we are still looking for a replacement Treasurer and hopefully, will have someone installed very soon. For the moment, rest assured that out of every £24 you spend on a membership, a large percentage of that is then turned into funding merchandise or other activities that double or triple your investment.

That's what being a Club Member is: an investment into securing a better future for XH558, and only by joining us can you ever hope to make the difference.

By all means stand on the sidelines if you wish - that is your choice, but at the same time, don't keep knocking all those who are working damn hard (12-15 hours a day not uncommon) to keep y(our) dreams alive, be they Club Members, Volunteers on the stalls, Engineers, Crew or upper Trust management.

There are always two sides to every coin. For as much as some here seem to have a beef about certain people in the organisation, I can multiply many times over, the number of incidences when those very same people have saved the project from certain collapse or failure for a whole host of reasons.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.....

We are where we are... grasp it while you can, or live to regret what could have been!

I sit in a bit of a unique spot, being a Club Committee member and also a contractor to the Trust. I hope to have "earned my spurs" with the vast majority who know of me, and to the others, perhaps we can all get the chance to develop this project together. If you are here, you have an interest in AVIATION and AIRCRAFT - YES?

This project can only go from strength to strength, the faster and more positive everyone is to do something practical, by backing those who can make a difference - THE VULCAN TO THE SKY CLUB & COMMITTEE.
It is this body that is having a far greater influence on Trust activities than any one individual here could ever hope for.

What are you going to do to help with the Appeal and the future of XH558?

ONWARDS & UPWARDS!

Regards all,
Ian.

[Dan4th]

Well, now, this has certainly been a stimulating
little thread so far, hasn't it? The BEST thing
about it is that we ALL LOVE 558 and want to
see her doing her thing for as many more years
as is aerodynamically possible. Lots of important
issues have been raised here today, but so long
as we never forget what is MOST important, I
truly believe that everything will work out better
than just well.

Mind you, there isn't a single thing I can point at
that proves my belief. Not one thing. I just know
that something so important, well, it's just TOO
important for it NOT to happen. It WILL happen.

Besides, if it doesn't, Haggis will be Furious! There
will be HELL to pay, make no mistake!

And that's all I've got for now.

Dan4th

[PhantomAviator]

Would you really, Air, completely reject the Club as
a worthy entity due to this one unfortunate statement
from one member outside of his official capacity?
Sounds mighty stern and inflexible to me!

Like I said, being VC of the club surely comes with certain responsibilities.
One of those being not bring the clubs name into disrepute.
People were very quick to name and shame him with being associated with the club.

Another point I've thought about is does the membership fee (£24?) for the club allow for gift aid?

If not then surely it's best to donate that money directly to the Vulcan and they can claim the gift aid back, than pay for club membership and allow HMGov take their slice of the pie thus the Vulcan gets less?

Another point of course is if the current appeal fails and the trust folds and the Vulcan is grounded, then there's absolutely no point having a club anyway.

Doesn't work that way. If the money goes to the vulcan directly and then be used to pay your club membership it will be deemed as an income to the Vulcan and then a debt to the Club.
So let's say 100 people have paid their membership fees to the Vulcan and the project goes into administration, the club and the members who have paid have no claim on the fees paid. the club will be the bottom of the administrators list.
Only direct donations to the Aircraft can get the gift aid bit back from the government.
Now if the club was registered as a charity (I don't know if it is or not), then there is a way to get the giftaid part back. (Ithink)

[Hihonyr8811]

Not sure if this is on or off topic anymore but the Christmas market is all set up, and I know for a fact there was at least £100 in the kitty when I left yesterday, little slower than last year, but that could just be the location.

If anyone wants to see how hard the volunteers work then just nip to Lincoln, most of them are 9am to 10pm today and tomorrow and probably something similar on Sunday.

We had a chap in yesterday who was a RAF photographer or 30 somthing years and took the air to air photo with the red arrows in 92 amongst others, and a lady who either used to or still does live by Cosford and watched XM598 land.

[Xplumberlives]

Helen

Bravo to ALL the Volunteers

[Sooty655]

Sorry, PiperArrow28, you're posting in the wrong place.

We have TWO threads on this subject, "558 Funding Update" and "XH558 50th Birthday Appeal (The Positive Thread)".

Posts consisting of reassurances that TVOC/VTST/558Club/All and Sundry know more, know better, are the only solution, and should be unquestioningly supported and plied with cash belong in the other one.

[MrTim]

Sorry, PiperArrow28, you're posting in the wrong place.

We have TWO threads on this subject, "558 Funding Update" and "XH558 50th Birthday Appeal (The Positive Thread)".

Posts consisting of reassurances that TVOC/VTST/558Club/All and Sundry know more, know better, are the only solution, and should be unquestioningly supported and plied with cash belong in the other one.

I'd say that Ian's post was far more relevant to funding than most of the other rants that have filled this thread.

[Sooty655]

Sorry, PiperArrow28, you're posting in the wrong place.

We have TWO threads on this subject, "558 Funding Update" and "XH558 50th Birthday Appeal (The Positive Thread)".

Posts consisting of reassurances that TVOC/VTST/558Club/All and Sundry know more, know better, are the only solution, and should be unquestioningly supported and plied with cash belong in the other one.

I'd say that Ian's post was far more relevant to funding than most of the other rants that have filled this thread.

I'd say the "rants", as you call them, suggest that the ranters are even less likely to be persuaded by last year's platitudes than they were last year. To me, that makes them far more relevant to the funding issue than any post repeating last year's platitudes.

[MrTim]

That's up to you, but a lot of the issues were personal, and not funding related, even if you wish to attach a funding spin to them (you could for almost anything). Being the person who started this thread, I'd have hoped it would stick to the issues related to funding. I have no problem with people's greivances being aired, and in many ways it is good to hear what people have to say. But when someone does post up something relevant, platitudes or otherwise in your opinion, don't moan about it being posted in the wrong thread.

[Xplumberlives]

Nothing stays on topic here, that is just part of the appeal!

[MrTim]

Exactly, but I noticed you kept yours on-topic by mentioning 'appeal'

[Xplumberlives]

[Dan4th]

This thread is perfectly Appeal Relevant due
to the fact that it deals with (mostly) direct
issues regarding OBSTACLES to giving. I'm
of the very strong conviction that the legitimate
problems raised here MUST be dealt with in
complete transparency if 558 is to have the
future we ALL want for her.

If the ROADBLOCKS to GIVING are removed,
and soon, then the MONEY will begin to flow.

Only problem is that the Roadblocks consider
themselves to be Indispensible and have a
view of the situation which does not reflect
any sort of logic or reality -- at least not on
THIS planet...........

Dan4th