558 Funding Update

[Xplumberlives]

Interesting points S.F.

[Exceptionalsleeper]

Okay guys, it is about time I informed you the real reason why I have issues with VTTS, Taff and above.

Sit back and relax, this isn’t a bash but to inform you all of my experiences of the VTTS and perhaps you may realise why I seem so menacing.

I first approached the VTTS (or whatever it was called) back in 2002 and asked if there was room for a volunteer. From what I can remember, I was briefed that only Marshalls guys were allowed to work on the aircraft and that if wanted too I would have to leave the RAF and seek full time work with Marshalls – not really an option.

A chance encounter with Taff in July 2008: I approached him and asked if there was a position as a volunteer. Asking my trade and experiences, he gave me his email and asked me to contact him which I did. I received an email and his proposition of taking exams and becoming fully trained in all things Vulcan – I was pretty excited. Despite several emails and the same old promises, it took the pre-Scramble setting up to actually get the ball rolling and he invited me down for the next Anti-Det. Post Scramble activities, I was personally invited by Andrew (with my Father witnessing) to join the engineering team throughout the forthcoming airshow season and I was to get measured up for a flying suit. A few weeks past and with the winter servicing looming, I called Taff and said I could take a week off leave to help out. Being short of an airframe engineer he snapped my arm off. I did loads that week, sourcing spares from deep store, carrying out an airframe survey prior to the winter servicing. I did this with relish and was asked by Andrew to go through the paperwork and to try and shorten the servicing schedule. Obviously, I was living in a dream world and really couldn’t believe my fortune, to be let loose on a Vulcan.

A further few weeks past and I started the winter servicing using another weekend off. Whilst there, I was given further promises that I was definitely on the airshow circuit from both Taff and Andrew, to the extent, John Hufton wrote to my Station Commander requesting I be relieved of my duty to help the VTTS, this was met with a yes from my senior officers. What more can I say, with news like that I gave up everything and my heart and soul to the VTTS. During the last week of the servicing I was at work during the day then I drove straight over to Brunty to help the lads. We weren’t finishing until after 2200hrs, this didn’t matter, I was doing my bit to help the VTTS to get this aircraft ready for those who gave. During that last week when everything was done, I asked Taff about the situation with me joining the airshow circuit and it was met with a blank response, as if I’d made it all up. I said, Andrew had personally invited me and I should get my flying suit sorted, you know about all of this. I was sent up to Roma and she measured me up and she said “you’re name isn’t on the list for a suit”. This kind of set me back a little and my response was if money is a problem, I will part with near £500 and purchase it myself. I left the following morning without a thank you and I heard no more about my position on the circuit despite promises of being the first to take the exams required for the ‘wannabee’ engineer program. I felt like I’d been taken for a complete and utter mug, certainly a hard punch to take.

During my time there, it seemed like I was a confidant for several people and became privy to a lot of surprising and sad information not discussed outside of the walls of Brunty. The wage the managers demanded, seeing expenses receipt and how much of the money was being squandered. Other political things which seemed odd, the Waltons kicking everyone out of the offices due to unpaid rent. One of my posts during the winter servicing was edited by Taff and what I had written on the forum was “commercial in confidence” and all it was mentioning was that Rolls Royce hadn’t made a decision on the corroded engine - trying my best to serve the club member. I questioned some of the workmanship being carried out; I work in the structures bay and with this particular issue, I am very qualified to do so. This example was on number 3 engine door; were during the survey I carried out, I found 14 out of 42 rivets loose on the same door rib and mentioned it needs to be snagged to Taff. Once a rivet is loose or pulled it isn’t performing its job and to have 1/3 knackered on the same line is not acceptable, yet it was on the Vulcan. I looked over the aircraft at Waddo - the rivets were still the same and assume still so.

The story of hearing how some old lady gave her last £5 from her pension to keep the aircraft fly and seeing the way they squander, pay an unjustified wage to the management, false promises and the Waddo mess was pretty much the final straw for me.

This isn’t me bashing but telling it how I experienced it, I have nothing to gain by making this up. I chat to ex-employees every day and some of their stories bolster my own experiences.

I just struggle to comprehend at times how people can still give money, it is a shame they haven’t experienced the misfortune I have. I found it hard to keep my mouth shut in the past but seeing I am being painted as a bad boy on this forum, I felt it was time. Perhaps you may understand my menacing frustration if indeed to excess, aimed at Taff and above and not the engineers?

Oh, to emphasize, I do understand sarcasm (it is the language of the armed forces) and my reply to Pat was in the same vein. Shame you can't get the tone across on the forum!

If you required further information Nickolas; such as shoes size, place of birth and passport number then please contact me as my VTTS profile does allow such detail for you to share.

[Xplumberlives]

I am glad you have had the opportunity to post all of the details from your perspective, we shall see if any comment is forthcoming!

[Exceptionalsleeper]

I am glad you have had the opportunity to post all of the details from your perspective, we shall see if any comment is forthcoming!

Thanks mate, I guess my comments seems harsh but I have now got the underlying facts of my chest. As previously written, my comments where never aimed at the engineers but from Taff and above.

[Nickolas]

ES, many thanks for the post. MOST enlightening.

If I need your inside leg measurement then I see that Roma has it.

Seriously though, NOW it all makes total sense.

Cheers,

Nickolas

[Exceptionalsleeper]

ES, many thanks for the post. MOST enlightening.

If I need your inside leg measurement then I see that Roma has it.

Seriously though, it all makes sense.

Cheers,

Nickolas

As I said, I was tired of keeping shtum, although some of my comments were for a wind up, I felt the underlying truth of my experiences need to be address with you guys.

[Nickolas]

As from day 1, politics has played a major part in the project.
Any form of politics is usually detrimental to the cause being pursued.

[Exceptionalsleeper]

It will be the downfall unfortunately. As Xplumberlives says, a good shift from the top would see many ex-supporters supporting.

Hasn't Dr. P promised he was leaving? Oh, another promise. Lol

[Dan4th]

There's been a lot of THIS, too:::::::::::



Multiple times, too, and the lesson not learned.....

Danf.

[Xplumberlives]

Yes Darnforth, but unfortunately it was a bigger gun set on automatic and was aimed at many feet!

[Old Rigger]

Hi Steve, having met you at Waddington during the Scramble and again when I came to see you in work at Cottesmore I had been quite suprised at your posts until the last one. I was also chuffed as monkeys when I got offered the chance to be a Volunteer Engineer, unlike you though I made it clear that I could only cover Waddington and at a push Coningsby, I finally got the disc and gen after much e-mailing, but until 558 was stuck at Waddington I was unable to pin anyone down due to the bloody hard work they were putting in to keep her flying this year.

When I got the chance to help on the Thurs to get her ready for departure and then on the Friday to do a see off of a Vulcan for the first time since 1992, I was like a kid with a new toy and the guys including Taff were great, but I never did get any response re the taking the exams and getting signed up for any thing further as I had also been given permission, within reason, from BAES to take time off to do it, again I personally put it down to how busy they were from Taff downwards.

I can understand your frustrations Steve, but through my eyes I have a different perspective and the people I have personally have had issues with were Rusty & Andrew E and on a different perpspective the Trust, but as I have kept saying here and on other forums, I will still try to help right up until the fat lady sings, which from the figures could be within three weeks unless another miracle happens, so come and be bored by an old fart on the Lincoln Market VV Friday/Saturday and Sunday PM telling war stories.

[Exceptionalsleeper]

I understand Mick but despite how busy you are you should always treat the volunteers with the respect they so rightly deserved. I don't blame Taff directly and without sounding dis-respectful Andrew pulls the strings, I'd have rather Taff have been honest from the start.

I admire your persistence but I can't do it. I still want to see her fly but at same token to finish, in the hope someone with a clue will take over. Ultimately, the engineers and support staff will suffer.

[Nickolas]

It will be the downfall unfortunately. As Xplumberlives says, a good shift from the top would see many ex-supporters supporting.

Hasn't Dr. P promised he was leaving? Oh, another promise. Lol

Call me cynical, (and It cannot be taken away from Dr Bob, as without him we would not be here debating this anyway) but I would not be surprised to hear of his resignation decision imminently (day or so) prior to the decision to wind up the project due to lack of financial support.


ALSO, have you noticed a completely different tone to this thread now the washing is out in the open.

[Old Rigger]

Don't disagree Steve and I was not having a pop at what you said either and I am fully aware of who pulls the strings and the problems they have caused/still causing, also you have more inside knowledge than I have with regards some of what you wrote compared with me speaking to ex engineers that I know who do not work on the project since 558 got back in the air.

[Ducati Boy]

Exceptional sleeper,

Thats some story mate, obviously as an employee of VTTS Trust I cannot comment on most of it without violating"commercial in confidence" rules.

The lack of a follow up to the Wannabees plan was partly down to me. This was in so far as I would have been back at work after head butting a car back in Dec 15 2008 with the intention of persuing training. Unfortunately, diagnosis of a tumour found during post crash examinations meant I had to have an operation in May 2009. The result of this was that as the boys were very busy, no one could give the necessary training and subsequent exams once the flying season was in full flow. For that I am sorry, sadly many other good people lost out too, put simply "S**t happens"mate.

I do sympathise with your plight, but as I have often said on here, precise aimed fire is more effective when seeking to destroy ones target than indesciminate area bombing. Just make sure you are a good shot and shoot the right target, then you would be amazed who might agree with you

It is sad to see that someone who was so obviously keen to help, ended up so much at odds with the management. I remember your efforts on the round the Vulcans trip and like most ordinary folk appreciated the effort.

By the way, never understood why they called it a Great War? All the ones I know of were pretty much S**t for all concerned, except the management!

I would be more suitable to the Boer War on the farmers side being as I am such a very, very accurate shot, verbally and ballistically speaking!

[Exceptionalsleeper]

I understood of your plight Pat at the time and I was sorry at your misfortune, I hope you are much better? With you OOA I would assume others would have taken the matter under their wing. There wasn't much engineering to be done since the last landing was back in Nov 08 and the winter servicing didn't start until Apr 09, Taff often promised he would sort it.

I understand shit happens but good volunteers are at a premium and need to be looked after. I would have done anything, keep me in the right mood and I am as loyal as they come. Still, too late now.

It was the Great War - a War to end all Wars, however, Hitler saw that the Jewish question needed to be answered...

[Saracenman]

I've intentionally kept my gob shut on this for a while but your post ES has encouraged me to contribute

firstly, many of you already know my long-standing views on TVOC/VTST management - and it has ALWAYS been for the reasons you highlight ES. I've pissed many people off over the last two years by being one of the few not prepared to say how wonderful VTST are

i believe others now see what i have been on about. I've never been a "told you so" kind of person, but....

HOWEVER...........

in my own experience, many things HAVE changed for the better - look back to the not-so-long-ago 'Rusty Era', and compare it with today. the Club is a very different animal to what it was about twelve months ago, communications with and from the Trust are MUCH better than they were, and overall, the whole Vulcan business is much better than it was back then.

yes, there ARE many improvements still URGENTLY required which, i believe, can ONLY be rectified by certain members of the management team leaving, or being removed. i have personally been embroiled in a whole load of naïve and ridiculous nonsense for the past four months or so, which has proved how inadequate and inept certain employees are. even so, it's an issue which would never have even seen the light of day in the Rusty Era!

in conclusion, we supporters have always been between the proverbial rock and hard place - we all want 558 to fly, and the current 'organisation' ( ) appear to be the only choice we have - ergo we still keep pumping money in!

quite why we, as 558's major 'shareholders' have no voice, vote or veto over WHO we employ, and for how much, is beyond me.

ES - you and i have both experienced much the same from VTS Trust, but i hope you appreciate why i vehemently support the CLUB!

I'd urge you to do the same!

sm

[Nickolas]

Dragging this slightly back towards the thread title, I notice that there total currently stands around the £72k mark.

OK that's the end of the On Topic Report, back to the sub plot.

[Dan4th]

[Exceptionalsleeper]

ES - you and i have both experienced much the same from VTS Trust, but i hope you appreciate why i vehemently support the CLUB!

I'd urge you to do the same!

I don't support the Club on the basis they provide additional funding to the Trust, I understand that is the idea.

Until the day those pesky blighters are removed from their station, I can't contribute in anyway, it goes against what I believe in that the Club just assists in funding the blackhole.

A new team and the right people at the top - Delta Tango, assisted by those who know how to run the operation and fly a Vulcan will see my Father & I back on board both in a supporting role and financially.

[Saracenman]

of course you're right - that's the sole reason for the Club's existence

BUT..........

whilst the Trust management would continually have you believe that they are the ONLY chance 558 has in the future, think about one thing - if the Trust were to go into administration, would that also drag the Club down too?

558's MOST valuable 'asset' is the Club - if the receivers end up being called in, a new management team COULD be put together, and 558 COULD be kept on the back burner until all the ducks are in line. the Club would play a central role in that.

it is the CLUB, not the Trust, which holds the future of 558 in the palm of its hand. 558 is always touted as "The people's Aeroplane" - 'The People' are the Club - we Club members

i have every reason under the sun to see the instant demise of the Trust management, but i remain a supporter of 558, the Aeroplane, and the best way to show that support is through my Club membership

sm

[MrTim]

This is the reason I'll be freezing my a£$e off all weekend working on the stand at Lincoln. See you there Mick, hope tomorrow is a good day.

[Air]

Can I just say thankyou Mr Sleeper for your excellent post (and not a 'cretin' in sight ).
It's about time the cloak and dagger and snide comments stopped here and someone actually explained things to those of us that aren't as well informed. Nice one.

Thankyou as well to Ducati Boy for giving an explanation to why ES wasn't taken onboard. It's GOOD to hear BOTH sides of the story for once.

ES - you and i have both experienced much the same from VTS Trust, but i hope you appreciate why i vehemently support the CLUB!

I'd urge you to do the same!

sm

After reading the racist comments from the Clubs Vice Chairman on another forum, I wouldn't touch the club with a barge pole. Perhaps he's someone else who needs to go if the club wants to be seen as credible.

[Xplumberlives]

What were the racist comments, not expecting you to quote, rather to point me in the right direction to look!

[Saracenman]

After reading the racist comments from the Clubs Vice Chairman on another forum, I wouldn't touch the club with a barge pole.

would you care to elaborate?

as far as I'm aware, Mr. Dickon Dearman is the Vulcan to the Sky Club's Vice Chairman - it he to whom you refer?

sm