558 Funding Update

[Nickolas]

FIGHT!!!!!

[Gaz]

For everyone's information Gaz stated that if the target was met he would learn to Foxtrot and dance with me. And yes I have witnesses to that statement....oh and he would be dressed as the female.....lol.

Your word against mine, Favell!

I've got a witness who will place me in Ecuador at the time I'm supposed to have made this statement


And Naddy: I'm not gonna wear a dress just so you can get an ogle of my, spectacular, knees

[Ducati Boy]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread guys.

Why go fishing? It certainly isn’t hard to get a bite around here!

Well Mr Exceptionalsleeper, you seem to have a right bee in your bonnet!
"TVOC couldn't be bothered to get 558 serviceable" Utter and complete uninformed nonsense!
We, the engineers, have always strived to have our aircraft serviceable as soon as it can be achieved. You try working from 7 am through to 2am next morning and call that not trying! These lads work their collective butts off trying to provide you with a Vulcan display to watch and because you missed one due to reasons beyond their control, we are suddenly not any use!

Lay off the workers and take your beef to those who upset you.

No bee in my bonnet my good man, I just have a very realistic and rational outlook on certain things triangular.

Firstly, as I explained quite eloquently to Sam via PM, that the message Taff sent me on the day of Cottesmore read in such away that the aircraft could have been flown later on in the day and he made no reference to the snag still being worked – what am I meant to think? Also, Cottesmore was a freeby wasn’t it?

Secondly, please don’t jump to conclusions, my issues are not with any of the engineers in the personal sense (included for clarity: John; Mark; Sam; Ray; Del or JJ.) as I have had the pleasure to work with them all. My beef is with Taff and above. I am not hear to discuss my reasons but some are blatently defenceless.

Thirdly, regards your comment on hours worked, how can I put this: I am a Techie in the RAF and detachment, to the educated ex-RAF man, I don’t need to discuss further. Besides, it is partly in your interest to safeguard your job by ensuring 558 gets maximum coverage during the season.

In conclusion, as previous said, my issue is with the management and despite my statement, it wasn't aimed at the engineers on a personal level - I hope this draws a line under this. If however, you feel the need to reply then please do, via PM.

Regards Steve

Bit late reading your epistle, been wasting my time trying to get the path to Winter servicing for a Vulcan well greased by auditing RAF Lyneham hangar so Marshall and TVOC techs can get on with their work in the New Year.

In response to your points,

1. I am my own man, I am most assuredly NOT your good man ( a very 1930's spot of arrogance there.).

2 Ignorance is no excuse, Sam explained what happened so why not just accept with good grace, for what ever reason, you didn't have all the facts. I was always taught to believe half of what I see and none of what is hearsay from third parties, works well mostly.

3. I have jumped to no conclusions, you made certain statements I merely defended them, quite politely I thought. Oh by the way I am also an Engineer( "included for your clarity") and happy to stand on my reputation.

4. Hours of work? As an "educated ex-RAF person I am not impressed nor over awed by RAF service, as after 31 years in the mob my sandbag is almost definately bigger than yours.

In "conclusion", of course I do not (so far) take your comments on a personal level, however if you have your say on here you can bet I won't be replying by PM to avoid a spirited response, one has to think of ones audience you know, Xpl and SM would never forgive me.

[Gaz]

[Exceptionalsleeper]

Bit late reading your epistle, been wasting my time trying to get the path to Winter servicing for a Vulcan well greased by auditing RAF Lyneham hangar so Marshall and TVOC techs can get on with their work in the New Year.

It is reassuring that a TVOC engineer calls his employment a ‘waste’.

1. I am my own man, I am most assuredly NOT your good man ( a very 1930's spot of arrogance there.).

Yes.

2 Ignorance is no excuse, Sam explained what happened so why not just accept with good grace, for what ever reason, you didn't have all the facts. I was always taught to believe half of what I see and none of what is hearsay from third parties, works well mostly.

I’d prefer to have accepted Taff’s version of events, however, if you regard Taff as a ‘third party’ and his explaination as ‘hearsay’ then again, I am filled with reassuring confidence.

3. I have jumped to no conclusions, you made certain statements I merely defended them, quite politely I thought. Oh by the way I am also an Engineer( "included for your clarity") and happy to stand on my reputation.

Your right is to defend a good bashing and indeed may I commend you on your sincerity. Nevertheless, how ever eloquently you write, certain actions of the VTTS during 2009 were and still are defenceless.

4. Hours of work? As an "educated ex-RAF person I am not impressed nor over awed by RAF service, as after 31 years in the mob my sandbag is almost definately bigger than yours.

Obviously, I can not compete with a old hat like yourself, perhaps you can share a few stories from the Great War?

In "conclusion", of course I do not (so far) take your comments on a personal level, however if you have your say on here you can bet I won't be replying by PM to avoid a spirited response, one has to think of ones audience you know, Xpl and SM would never forgive me.

No problem my old chum but please excuse one’s 1930’s arrogance.

[Xplumberlives]

Bit late reading your epistle, been wasting my time trying to get the path to Winter servicing for a Vulcan well greased by auditing RAF Lyneham hangar so Marshall and TVOC techs can get on with their work in the New Year.

It is reassuring that a TVOC engineer calls his employment a ‘waste’.

1. I am my own man, I am most assuredly NOT your good man ( a very 1930's spot of arrogance there.).

Yes.

2 Ignorance is no excuse, Sam explained what happened so why not just accept with good grace, for what ever reason, you didn't have all the facts. I was always taught to believe half of what I see and none of what is hearsay from third parties, works well mostly.

I’d prefer to have accepted Taff’s version of events, however, if you regard Taff as a ‘third party’ and his explaination as ‘hearsay’ then again, I am filled with reassuring confidence.

3. I have jumped to no conclusions, you made certain statements I merely defended them, quite politely I thought. Oh by the way I am also an Engineer( "included for your clarity") and happy to stand on my reputation.

Your right is to defend a good bashing and indeed may I commend you on your sincerity. Nevertheless, how ever eloquently you write, certain actions of the VTTS during 2009 were and still are defenceless.

4. Hours of work? As an "educated ex-RAF person I am not impressed nor over awed by RAF service, as after 31 years in the mob my sandbag is almost definately bigger than yours.

Obviously, I can not compete with a old hat like yourself, perhaps you can share a few stories from the Great War?

In "conclusion", of course I do not (so far) take your comments on a personal level, however if you have your say on here you can bet I won't be replying by PM to avoid a spirited response, one has to think of ones audience you know, Xpl and SM would never forgive me.

No problem my old chum but please excuse one’s 1930’s arrogance.

This could run and run!

[Cluny]

Il get the kettle on XP

[Gaz]

Great fun though, isn't it?!?!

[Nickolas]

Going to out run 'The Mousetrap' at this rate...............
Whatever the fate of 558, this should run well past the end of her projected life span....

I'll have no sugar with mine please and do you have any Jaffa cakes??

[MadNaddy]

I really don't think that Exceptional Sleeper should continue to goad people in the way he is doing IMO.... You have an axe to grind, Hell I do too! But I'm going to those necessary and doing it that way! DB IMO doesn't deserve the goading he's received.

"Obviously, I can not compete with a old hat like yourself, perhaps you can share a few stories from the Great War?"

You've wound people up, made comment ES and you're still carrying on....... nothing will get sorted this way will it? I know we're on here to discuss but to goad? I didn't honestly think that's what this forum was all about personally. DB has been decent in his post to you, and asked you not to speak to him the way you have and you're carrying on, clearly winding him up. DB is bigger than that but it isn't nice for ME to read. I don't know how others feel.

But, I wanted to make my feelings known.

[Nickolas]

User Name: exceptionalsleeper
Real Name: Steven Lowe
Location: Newark-On-Trent, United Kingdom
Age: 29
Marital Status: Any offers?
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Occupation: RAF JNCO - Aircraft Technician (Mechanical)
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Lifted from VTTS........

Marital status made me chuckle..............



This is mine to save you the search.........

User Name: Nickolas
Real Name: Nickolas Reeks
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Age: 53
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[Dan4th]

Have to say, ES, I think your anger is misplaced.
Go ahead and be as angry as you want, but please
aim it at the correct target. I also think you'll
find that you can make your points even better
and have them carry more weight if you don't
go out of your way to be insulting. Simple facts
often speak for themselves and can be far more
damning and damaging than an emotion-charged
tirade.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Dan4th

[PhantomAviator]

Bit late reading your epistle, been wasting my time trying to get the path to Winter servicing for a Vulcan well greased by auditing RAF Lyneham hangar so Marshall and TVOC techs can get on with their work in the New Year.

It is reassuring that a TVOC engineer calls his employment a ‘waste’.



ES as a serving JNCO you should by now know a 'figure of speech' when you see one, instead of twisting it around to suit one's self.

Mind you I don't suppose you have such things as Minivals or Tacivals these days, No sorry they were the sort of things we used to have during the COLD WAR. (That's something we had to endure so that people like yourself can be around to twist as you feel fit).

'Oh' and don't forget to put your stockings out for Santa
Happy Christmas.

[Nickolas]

ES / PA, can't you recognise 'sarcatic' remarks when you read them.

BB's refernce to 'wasting his time' is one example.

As Dan4th commented by all means vent your spleen but for heavens sake vent it at the correct people, NOT at the people who are busting there bollocks to maintain the aircraft.

Your last post on VTTS forum was 15th Nov and you even complained then that the non appearance at Cottesmore should not have happened. You really don't like the engineering team do you.

Did you apply to work on the A/c and not get the chance?

In you defence as there was a debate raging about the 'free' appearances at RAF station and you defended the argument for doing this.

quote:
Originally posted by Mayfly

Marham & Cottesmore Family Days both coincide with Lowerstoft & are both on the same 'flight path' the cost of those 'thank yous' are very small in comparision.


Rightly so, the RAF have been very 'willing' to help the cause, unfortunately, however, she went U/S for Cottesmore's Families Day - something that could have been fixed!

I really am at a loss for this animosity.

[PhantomAviator]

Well it is one thing if I was having a go at DB but I wasn't.
As someone who has worked for TVOC, SO DOES KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN.
FlipFlopMan (Ron) knows exactly who I am.
My remarks were directed at ES if you read it again Nickolas you will be able to see what I was having a go at.

DB was using a term of phrase that everyone does very now and then.
The fact that Marshalls had to audit the hangar was laughable as they (possibly still have) always had teams in working on the Fat Alberts in most of the hangars, I know when I was a Liney at Lyneham sometimes we had to kick them out so we could have the space for our kites.

I do not know ES, so don't put me in the same class as him.
I didnt and have not complained about the non appearance at Cottesmore so please if you want to point the finger do so (but as in your words).

As Dan4th commented by all means vent your spleen but for heavens sake vent it at the correct people, NOT at the people who are busting there bollocks to maintain the aircraft.

[Dan4th]

Don't worry, PA. I think Nickolas just didn't
quite get it right. I know I've never seen you
cast any rash comments on here, and this
thread has gotten a little confusing as to who
said what and when and all that stuff. We're
not used to posts like ES's on here, but that
doesn't mean Moderation is required. If his
posts got pulled, the rest of us wouldn't be
able to comment on them.

There's one Forumeer who seems outraged by
all of this and uses it to paint the entire forum
as a mud slinging match. Well, I'm sorry, but
one thread and a few scatter shots of vented
anger do not a mudhole make!

Hand me that popcorn, will you?????????????

Danf.

[PhantomAviator]

Don't worry, PA. I think Nickolas just didn't
quite get it right. I know I've never seen you
cast any rash comments on here, and this
thread has gotten a little confusing as to who
said what and when and all that stuff. We're
not used to posts like ES's on here, but that
doesn't mean Moderation is required. If his
posts got pulled, the rest of us wouldn't be
able to comment on them.

There's one Forumeer who seems outraged by
all of this and uses it to paint the entire forum
as a mud slinging match. Well, I'm sorry, but
one thread and a few scatter shots of vented
anger do not a mudhole make!

Hand me that popcorn, will you?????????????

Danf.

If you are having the popcorn then can I have the Orange Juice please?

[Dan4th]

One of these?

Or should I hold the Tequila?

Danf.

[Gully]

Salted popcorn here please - none of this sweet stuff!

Sneaking back on topic (I know it won't last!) - all of the above concerning the need for managment and structural changes and a 'new approach' becomes rather irrelevant if we don't secure the funds to continue into 2010... Pledge scheme is picking up a little momentum, which is good to see.

Gully

[Dan4th]

I think on the one hand you are absolutely
correct (!), but on the other, you simply have
to ask yourself what might the Obstacles to
Funding be? Do the Obstacles to Funding even
realise their "Obstacularity"?

I for one don't think they do!

Mmmmmmmmmmmm! Smell That Popcorn!

Danf.

[Nickolas]

Well it is one thing if I was having a go at DB but I wasn't.
As someone who has worked for TVOC, SO DOES KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN.
FlipFlopMan (Ron) knows exactly who I am.
My remarks were directed at ES if you read it again Nickolas you will be able to see what I was having a go at.

DB was using a term of phrase that everyone does very now and then.
The fact that Marshalls had to audit the hangar was laughable as they (possibly still have) always had teams in working on the Fat Alberts in most of the hangars, I know when I was a Liney at Lyneham sometimes we had to kick them out so we could have the space for our kites.

I do not know ES, so don't put me in the same class as him.
I didnt and have not complained about the non appearance at Cottesmore so please if you want to point the finger do so (but as in your words).

As Dan4th commented by all means vent your spleen but for heavens sake vent it at the correct people, NOT at the people who are busting there bollocks to maintain the aircraft.

Most humble apologies.

Yes I have indeed misread the post.

The last post on Nov 15 was by ES, and may I confirm that there is on one using the handle 'PhantomAviator' on the VTTS Forum.

Apologies again for any confusion or offence caused.

Nickolas

[Dan4th]

It's alright, Your Holiness.....

We all know how busy you've been with
Christmas coming up and the Elves' Strike
and all....

Have a little Nip and a Nap and you'll be
good to go!

Danf.

[Xplumberlives]

Still think a few well placed high up redundancies wouldn't go amis!

[Old Rigger]

all of the above concerning the need for managment and structural changes and a 'new approach' becomes rather irrelevant if we don't secure the funds to continue into 2010...

Quite right, but remember we were promised these changes the last time i.e. beginning of the year and a lot of forum/club members said that if these promised changes did not happen and the old line of give us x by y does happen again it is good bye again, we would not put up with it.

They did not happen, all the inertia ran out as soon as the aircraft stopped flying, and here we are again needing x by y or else with little time to do much and little/no support from the top with getting out there and spreading the word /showing their commitment.

The only people who are also not doing what they said they would do is most of the forum/club members, as again we are attempting the impossible for those in the trust and why: Because we do not want to see 558 grounded and the hard working engineers/aircrew put through all that angst again after all the sterling work and pain they have allready endured for us.

[Spitfire]

all of the above concerning the need for managment and structural changes and a 'new approach' becomes rather irrelevant if we don't secure the funds to continue into 2010...

Quite right, but remember we were promised these changes the last time i.e. beginning of the year and a lot of forum/club members said that if these promised changes did not happen and the old line of give us x by y does happen again it is good bye again, we would not put up with it.

They did not happen, all the inertia ran out as soon as the aircraft stopped flying, and here we are again needing x by y or else with little time to do much and little/no support from the top with getting out there and spreading the word /showing their commitment.

The only people who are also not doing what they said they would do is most of the forum/club members, as again we are attempting the impossible for those in the trust and why: Because we do not want to see 558 grounded and the hard working engineers/aircrew put through all that angst again after all the sterling work and pain they have already endured for us.

Absolutely spot on

Personally I'm sick of the whole thing all this who said what to who and what he said and what he did and who hates who and why - load of school kids - grow up the lot of you

I'm one of those who said if it happened again - as Old Rigger describes above - I wouldn't be supporting ...and I'm not. For - sure as eggs is eggs - if XH gets through this crisis there'll be another along in a minute
Lurching from one crisis to another and fire fighting the problem not fire prevention of the problem is never going to get anywhere but straight to the scene of the next accident.

Sad though it is - and sorry as I am for the innocent and hard working ground crew and engineers - there must come a time when enough is enough and it has to be laid to rest.