Identify the Aircraft

[Saracenman]

so i'm 99% there then - and beaten SB to it too!

edit - Cord 812?

[Dan4th]

SM:

You are REALLY close, but not an 812. Think
previous model year....

Also, what's the Model? I mentioned it already....

Go Wiki on this!

A Cord WHAT????

D.

[Saracenman]

ok - struggling if this isn't right - Cord 810? i can find all sorts of references to names - including Westchester!

so, are we talking 810 Fixedhead? 810 Drophead? 810 Phaeton? 810 Humpty-Dumpty?

[Dan4th]

Oh, alright, I'll give it to YOU, SM.....

It's a 1936 Cord 810 Phaeton non-supercharged.....

Designed by the legendary Gordon Beurig.

At the time it was introduced, car designers all over
the world considered it to be nearly perfect!

V-8, front-wheel drive, very few produced....

Over to you for the next one........

Dan4th

Oh, and E.L. Cord also owned Stinson Aircraft and
Lycoming Engines!!!!!!

[Saracenman]

have to say - whilst i know very VERY few Murkin cars, the Cord Beverly (specifically) was in a book i had in my early teens - I've ALWAYS loved it - that radiator grille design is fantastic!

they have a Cord in the Haynes Motor Museum not far from here...



so, how did they compare with Packards then Danforth? I'm thinking in terms of engineering prowess and prestige status

back soon with a stinker hopefully

[Dan4th]

Well, the thing with that last Cord model was that
it was UNIQUE. Most people, even well-heeled people,
wanted a car they could buy locally and have serviced
locally, etc. Not many Cord dealers in existence in the
middle of the Depression, you see....

It performed as well as a Packard or a Buick or a Cadillac,
but try to get one fixed or get parts on that cross-country
jaunt and you'd have problems.

It really was the last gasp of the E.L. Cord Automotive
Empire, driven as it was by his enormous ego. The styling
and engineering are still admired today! When you consider
that Cord's sister makes were Auburn and DUESENBERG,
it becomes clear that it had great genes. I mean, not to be
a slimey Murkin or anything, I don't think RR ever built
ANYTHING that came close to the Model J Duesenberg for
performance or speed or (dare I say it???) Quality.

Errett Loban Cord was trying to make a POINT in the middle
of the Great Depression. He did, and the car itself remains.

Not Bad.....

Dan4th

[Saracenman]

yeah - i remember reading just how much Cords were admired - never knew all that though, hence my question re Packard comparison. mighty fine motor!

anyway - AEROPLANES!

I'll be SERIOUSLY impressed if SB gets this!



no prizes for looks really eh?

sm

[Dan4th]

Airliner?

British?

Danf.

[Saracenman]

no and no!

[Dan4th]

Boeing or Douglas???????

D.

[Saracenman]

which one?

[Dan4th]

I'd have to go with Dougie.......

D.

[Saracenman]

just joshing - it's not a Boeing nor is it a Douglas

[Dan4th]

Is it a modified version of an existing aircraft??????

Danf.

[Saracenman]

nope - designed and built just as you see it

an interesting history too

sm

[Stevieboy]

Hmmmm. Let me think now.

The two ladies are Sally Siebert from the Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service (WAVE) and Winifred Thompson from the Women’s Army Corps (WAC).

The photo was taken at Budd Field, Philadelphia on 29th January 1945 and the aircraft is a Budd RB-1 Conestoga cargo aircraft.

Am I close?

[Saracenman]

how the bloodyhell did you know that SB?

Budd RB1 Conestoga it is!



very interesting aircraft it seems...

Design and development

World War II created a great demand for military transport planes in the United States. Because of initial fears of a shortage of aluminum, the War Department explored the use of other materials for aircraft construction. Budd, the developer of the shotweld technique for welding stainless steel and a manufacturer of stainless steel railroad cars, automobile, bus, and truck bodies, hired an aeronautical engineering staff and worked with the U. S. Navy to develop a new twin-engine transport plane constructed primarily of stainless steel. The Navy accepted the proposal for the new aircraft, and placed an order for 200, to be designated RB-1. The U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) followed with an order for 600, designated C-93.

The Conestoga was a twin-engine high-wing monoplane with tricycle landing gear. The elevated flight deck was contained in a distinctive, almost spherical nose section. Its two 1,200 hp (890 kW) Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 air cooled 14-cylinder, twin-row, radial engines, the same engines fitted to the C-47, drove three-bladed Hamilton Standard Hydromatic constant-speed, full-feathering propellers and powered a 24-volt electrical system. While the fuselage was thin-gauge stainless steel, only a portion of the wing was made of the metal; the trailing section of the wing and all control surfaces were fabric-covered.

Innovations
The RB-1/C-93 was radical for its day, introducing many of the features now standard in military transports. The flight deck could accommodate three crew members, pilot and copilot side-by-side, the navigator behind them. Stairs connected the flight deck to the cargo area, which was 25 feet (7.6 m) long with an unobstructed cross-section of 8 x 8 feet (2.4m) throughout its length. Cargo loading and unloading could be accomplished in two ways: through 40 x 60 inch (102 x 152 cm) doors on both sides of the fuselage or by an electrically operated 10 x 8 foot (3.0 x 2.4 m) ramp at the aft end of the cargo area under the upswept tail. The loading ramp, accessed by manually operated clam-shell doors, along with the tricycle landing gear, meant cargo could be loaded/unloaded at truck-bed height. A manually-operated two-ton (907 kg) hoist for unloading trucks and a one-ton winch for pulling cargo up the ramp were also provided in the cargo area. The aircraft could accommodate

- 24 paratroopers, or
- 24 stretchers and 16 sitting wounded, or
- 9,600 pounds of cargo, or
- a 1-1/2 ton truck, or
- the largest ambulance in use by the U.S. military.

Operational history
The prototype first flew from the Budd Red Lion Factory Airfield in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on October 31, 1943, piloted by Guy Miller. The prototype had a takeoff run when empty of just 650 feet, and could carry a maximum payload of 10,400 pounds with a takeoff run of 920 feet. However, the aircraft demonstrated greater than expected fuel consumption; the range with a standard payload was only 700 miles, 650 miles with a maximum payload. Three prototype aircraft: NX37097, NX41810, and NC45354 were built; one was used for testing radio equipment, while the other two were used for flight test evaluations. During testing, a few aircraft had difficulty with the simultaneous deployment of the right and left landing gear. With the same engines as the C-47, but with 3,000 pounds more weight (empty), the aircraft was relatively underpowered; it was reportedly said that for an aircraft built by a railroad car company, it indeed handled like one.

At the Budd factory and airfield in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, there were construction delays due to cost overruns and problems with stainless steel fabrication. By late 1943, aluminum production had been increased with the construction of new processing facilities, and other more conventional cargo planes (such as the Curtiss-Wright C-46 Commando and the Douglas C-47 Skytrain) were being produced in large numbers. This caused the Army to cancel its order for the C-93 and the Navy to reduce its RB-1 order from 200 to 25, of which 17 were delivered in March 1944.

On April 13, 1944, during a Naval Air Training Command (NATC) evaluation flight of RB-1 prototype U.S. Navy NX37097 at Patuxent River NAS, Maryland, the aircraft crashed, killing one of the crew. The aircraft was damaged beyond repair and written off, but the pilot reported that the stainless steel construction of the plane contributed to saving his life.

Production RB-1 aircraft never entered squadron service with the Navy, but a few were briefly used by Naval Air Stations as utility aircraft. With only seventeen aircraft in inventory, the RB-1 was not feasible to maintain on the active list, and it was retired from U.S. Navy service in early 1945. The extant RB-1s were then transferred to the War Assets Administration (WAA) to be sold as war surplus. In 1945, the WAA sold 12 Conestogas to the National Skyway Freight Corp[7] for $28,642 each at a time when new C-47s were selling for approximately $100,000 each. The new company, founded by members of the AVG Flying Tigers immediately sold four RB-1 aircraft to other buyers, which paid for the entire WAA contract.

The seven remaining National Skyways planes were used to transport a variety of cargo, shipping fruit and furniture from its base in Long Beach, California. Pilots reported that the Budd transports were temperamental; in particular, exhaust stacks kept falling off and causing engine fires. There were three more crashes of the Conestogas while in service with National Skyway Freight, one each in Virginia, New Mexico, and Michigan. The crash in Virginia was a belly landing at a country club brought on by fuel exhaustion as the result of weather-related problems. The Albuquerque, New Mexico crash was apparently due to pilot error when the exhausted pilots fell asleep; they awoke in time to make a forced landing, but pilot and copilot were killed when they were thrown through the windshield and the plane skidded over them; the flight engineer survived.

In 1947 the Army (and later the Air Force) gave National Skyway Freight a large contract for trans-Pacific freight, for which it leased military aircraft. The company changed its name to Flying Tiger and replaced the RB-1s with C-47s for its US freight routes; the RB-1s were sold off to other buyers. One of these aircraft, a prototype RB-1 - NC45354 - was sold to the Tucker Motor Company to transport its demonstration car to auto shows around the U.S.A; it was reportedly later abandoned at an airfield in Oakland, California after repeated mechanical troubles.

A single unrestored Budd RB-1 is on display at the Pima Air Museum in Tucson, Arizona.

ugly bugger though!

all yours SB

sm

[Stevieboy]

I take it that you were refering to the Budd as an ugly bugger and not me SM.

An interesting aeroplane so thanks very much for digging it out.

Here's one for everyone to have a go at.

[Saracenman]

my initial thought was that it is Kraut - but not so sure it's not Brit

?

[Dan4th]

Murkin?

D.

[Stevieboy]

Not Kraut.

Not Brit.

Not Murkin.

[Saracenman]

Italian? does it have reverse?

[Stevieboy]

Italian? does it have reverse?

Not Italian and no reverse.

Never needed to change sides.

[Dan4th]

Dehavilland Canada?

D.

[Saracenman]

Canadian? DH?

edit - great minds eh D4?