Engineer Wanabee's

[Xplumberlives]

D4th

I and many others have previously volunteered to help in various roles from envelope stuffing to fod plodding and other aircraft related tasks! Presumably they had sufficient help to proceed. All of which makes MEDIC ONE's previous diatribe unneccessary!

[Mayfly]

The point is they have asked for volunteers so you cant blame people for sending in their CVs - who is chosen is up to the mangement.

I know for a fact that lot of people have offered help over the years including myself & it was never taken up......

eventually what I did I did off my own bat to aid the aircrew.

[Mackrick]

Where were all these tousands of volunteers when the project first asked for help in the hanger 3 years ago when some 30 or of us have been working in the hanger and in the deep store in all weather's getting parts for the enginners all this time. Now there seems to be a bit of glory to be at airshows and and walk about some sort of uniform there are loads of people coming out of the woodwork now the hard work is done

Madic one you do have a point but like others some of us have not been in a position to offer our help in the past.
I for one am serving in the RAF, and had volunteered to help through the channels but was not selected. During last season while at an RAF station I did offer and help out where I could within the rules both TVOC and RAF. I gave up my own time to help out in anyway I could. Now this opportunity has arisen and I am in a situation where I can now offer more of my time on a more official basis then I have done so. I am not interested in it for the glory or having my photo taken. I want to help because I can, I maybe in the right place, I may have the skill sets required.
I hope that I am selected as donating is the only way that I can currently help.

MR

[Saracenman]

and yours, Mackrick, is the same tale as many others'

offers of assistance were ROUTINELY ignored, in all manner of areas up until a few months ago - thankfully, the changes at Brunty has led to a completely new attitude and focus on the way ahead.

558 was only ever going to be a team effort - the larger the team, the less the burden on each member

sm

[RLN]

I can understand Medic One's feelings, but what SM said explains the situation in a nutshell. Mainly 'cos he fits in one

[Mayfly]

I can understand Medic One feeling miffed but that should be aimed at the management shouldn't it? at the end of the day these people have been asked to help

[Old Rigger]

I have to say that I do not agree with Medic one, as ex aircraft engineers like myself and others have volunteered to do all those things you mentioned and the offers were not accepted and are certainly not volunteering now 'only for the glory', they are volunteering because they are now being requested/permitted to by the very people that refused/did not allow them to help previously. Some of those volunteers were unable to work full time on the project, but could have been allowed to help with scrounging bits/removing them from the display aircraft, cleaning & servicing them (those of us within a bay on an RAF base), but again these offers were turned down.

[Mackrick]

I have to say that I do not agree with Medic one, as ex aircraft engineers like myself and others have volunteered to do all those things you mentioned and the offers were not accepted and are certainly not volunteering now 'only for the glory', they are volunteering because they are now being requested/permitted to by the very people that refused/did not allow them to help previously. Some of those volunteers were unable to work full time on the project, but could have been allowed to help with scrounging bits/removing them from the display aircraft, cleaning & servicing them (those of us within a bay on an RAF base), but again these offers were turned down.

Well said

[Jigsaw]

*chuckle* (@ RLN)

[Mackrick]

*chuckle* (@ RLN)

Glad you added the end bit was just going to have a rant

[Dan4th]

RLN and everybody else:::::::::

Yeah, well anyone who's chosen as a handmaiden to
XH-558 ought to count themselves lucky!!!!!!!

Oh, and YES, I KNOW how many have offered with
open hearts in the past. It still needs to be said
a la SM, this does seem to be a NEW DAY! (...thank God...)

BTW: Your subscription in Gleek is the opening line
to the Iliad, is it not?

My late MOM could tell me, but she's not around....

Danf.

[RLN]

Sorry, Dan4th but it is Simonides. You're the 2nd to comment. I am not Greek or part of, but I am an Hellenophile. So much so that my 1st born is Phillip Alexander. For those of you not au fait with Greek history Phillip was the father of Alexander the Great. AtG is one of my heroes. He'd conquered more than the known world by the time he died at 32, Also, he carried the Iliad everywhere with him. Brilliant and tasteful.

[Medic one]

I far as I can remember the request for volunters was throught the club magazine and this was to contact Colin Marshall or George the lead volunter I left my name and telephone number and a few months later was contacted to go to brnuntingthorpe was give a health and safety talk and then started working on the project so why so many people where turned away I do not understand unless they contacted the wrong people who thought they had the authority to turn peolpe away many of us know who was responsible

[Saracenman]

sorry Medic one, but the last few years are literally LITTERED with people who've sent letters, emails, 'phone calls etc - all unanswered! even people not having donation cheques cashed months later.

we're not just talking about the position you got - just countless offers of help, over many months. you don't have to look very far to find the evidence.

anyway - that's all in the past thankfully!

sm

[Ducati Boy]

D4th, I shall bring the MOONIE missile back in to use!

It would seem that those at the top of the Vulcan Pile have sought out help to cover more ground.

If they had enough volunteers, they would have probably stayed in house rather than going public.

Let's hope no-one holds back from volunteering because of doubt over their worthiness due to not volunteering earlier in line with MEDIC ONEs feelings in a previous post.

Once again we head back towards the " IT'S OUR AIRCRAFT" viewpoint and all the problems that caused in times gone by!

Blimey Xp, spot of paranoia there old chap!
I don't want to comment on the sins of the past, we are trying really hard to build a future for the project and recriminations won't help at all, but I am sure some folk are unhappy they were not personally involved during the restoration.

However, I must put you straight on the wannabees scheme which seems to be generating some negativity among some folk!

I dont know what you mean by "top of the Vulcan pile" but the idea for Wannabees being recruited came from the engineers. As there are only a small number of engineers we frequently need physical help in actually operating the old bird. Giving a limited number of volunteers formal training to assist us seemed a win win situation for all involved.

There was never any intention to restrict applications to "in house" or a favoured few only. There was no subterfuge or secret preference ever intended. It was always intended to open the idea to all who applied to be considered and the only requirment would be ability to actually do the work. So anyone who wants to should apply!

Those who apply would be vetted, obviously for suitability and the engineers would have a veto over who was ultimately selected. After all engineers in a small close knit team need to trust those they work with and we, the engineers, will not accept or be made to work with anyone we do not want to work with.

Finally your remark about "our aircraft" is personally insulting to the engineers who have worked so hard to provide everyone with an aircraft to start with! I make no apology for seeing her as "my aircraft", on a daily basis we are responsible for her safety, thats how engineers see their machines. But in no way do we seek to keep her to an elitist few! She belongs to all of those who chose to support her and no one believes in that stronger than your engineers!

If we really intended to keep you in the dark, Smiler and myself simply would not be on any forum at all and we would never have bothered to publicise the wannabee idea at all!

This idea was/is a genuine attempt to give some people the privalege to actually assist in the operation of their Vulcan, there is no hidden agenda or secret politics, so please drop the paranoia and give us a break!

[Mayfly]

D4th, I shall bring the MOONIE missile back in to use!

It would seem that those at the top of the Vulcan Pile have sought out help to cover more ground.

If they had enough volunteers, they would have probably stayed in house rather than going public.

Let's hope no-one holds back from volunteering because of doubt over their worthiness due to not volunteering earlier in line with MEDIC ONEs feelings in a previous post.

Once again we head back towards the " IT'S OUR AIRCRAFT" viewpoint and all the problems that caused in times gone by!

Blimey Xp, spot of paranoia there old chap!
I don't want to comment on the sins of the past, we are trying really hard to build a future for the project and recriminations won't help at all, but I am sure some folk are unhappy they were not personally involved during the restoration.

However, I must put you straight on the wannabees scheme which seems to be generating some negativity among some folk!

I dont know what you mean by "top of the Vulcan pile" but the idea for Wannabees being recruited came from the engineers. As there are only a small number of engineers we frequently need physical help in actually operating the old bird. Giving a limited number of volunteers formal training to assist us seemed a win win situation for all involved.

There was never any intention to restrict applications to "in house" or a favoured few only. There was no subterfuge or secret preference ever intended. It was always intended to open the idea to all who applied to be considered and the only requirment would be ability to actually do the work. So anyone who wants to should apply!

Those who apply would be vetted, obviously for suitability and the engineers would have a veto over who was ultimately selected. After all engineers in a small close knit team need to trust those they work with and we, the engineers, will not accept or be made to work with anyone we do not want to work with.

Finally your remark about "our aircraft" is personally insulting to the engineers who have worked so hard to provide everyone with an aircraft to start with! I make no apology for seeing her as "my aircraft", on a daily basis we are responsible for her safety, thats how engineers see their machines. But in no way do we seek to keep her to an elitist few! She belongs to all of those who chose to support her and no one believes in that stronger than your engineers!

If we really intended to keep you in the dark, Smiler and myself simply would not be on any forum at all and we would never have bothered to publicise the wannabee idea at all!

This idea was/is a genuine attempt to give some people the privalege to actually assist in the operation of their Vulcan, there is no hidden agenda or secret politics, so please drop the paranoia and give us a break!

Pat it is obvious to me that the engineers need help I saw first hand how maxed out you are - & I know DT was concerned about the pressure you were all under. I know the subject of volunteers was brought up a couple of years ago & you were told no so I'm pleased now things have moved forward.

I think asking for volunteers is exactly the way to go, my comment which I hope you didn't take offence at re medic one should be miffed with the management, was in response to him obviously feeling left out after giving years of voluntary service [which I do understand] yet seeing others step in at the last minute & go to airshows. In a perfect world all involved with the project would be invited to airshows see her fly but we all know that is not possible.

[Xplumberlives]

D4th, I shall bring the MOONIE missile back in to use!

It would seem that those at the top of the Vulcan Pile have sought out help to cover more ground.

If they had enough volunteers, they would have probably stayed in house rather than going public.

Let's hope no-one holds back from volunteering because of doubt over their worthiness due to not volunteering earlier in line with MEDIC ONEs feelings in a previous post.

Once again we head back towards the " IT'S OUR AIRCRAFT" viewpoint and all the problems that caused in times gone by!

Blimey Xp, spot of paranoia there old chap!
I don't want to comment on the sins of the past, we are trying really hard to build a future for the project and recriminations won't help at all, but I am sure some folk are unhappy they were not personally involved during the restoration.

However, I must put you straight on the wannabees scheme which seems to be generating some negativity among some folk!

I dont know what you mean by "top of the Vulcan pile" but the idea for Wannabees being recruited came from the engineers. As there are only a small number of engineers we frequently need physical help in actually operating the old bird. Giving a limited number of volunteers formal training to assist us seemed a win win situation for all involved. The management agreeing to the recruitment of extra HELP.

There was never any intention to restrict applications to "in house" or a favoured few only. There was no subterfuge or secret preference ever intended. It was always intended to open the idea to all who applied to be considered and the only requirment would be ability to actually do the work. So anyone who wants to should apply!

Those who apply would be vetted, obviously for suitability and the engineers would have a veto over who was ultimately selected. After all engineers in a small close knit team need to trust those they work with and we, the engineers, will not accept or be made to work with anyone we do not want to work with.

Finally your remark about "our aircraft" is personally insulting to the engineers who have worked so hard to provide everyone with an aircraft to start with! I make no apology for seeing her as "my aircraft", on a daily basis we are responsible for her safety, thats how engineers see their machines. But in no way do we seek to keep her to an elitist few! She belongs to all of those who chose to support her and no one believes in that stronger than your engineers! The old way as it was when many people made the offer to help.

If we really intended to keep you in the dark, Smiler and myself simply would not be on any forum at all and we would never have bothered to publicise the wannabee idea at all! I never suggested that you were.
This idea was/is a genuine attempt to give some people the privalege to actually assist in the operation of their Vulcan, there is no hidden agenda or secret politics, so please drop the paranoia and give us a break!

Pat, don't take everything so PERSONALLY, this was all in reply to MEDIC ONEs comments on both this forum and the other one. Every time someone makes a comment you seem to think it is personally aimed directly at you and the other Engineers. This is not the case. Go back and read MEDIC ONEs first comment in both forums and aim your comments at him!

[Ducati Boy]

Xpl,

Ignoring your patronising analysis of sensitive little me and moving swiftly on.

I do care about the implications of shady dealings in the selection of volunteers, which were inherrent in your post and others, intentionally or not.

My post was intended to explain the selection process, as I understand it. The intention was to make that process clear, remove ambiguity, ignorance and uninformed comment. Hopefully it did so.

Mayfly,

You are as usual right, we were under intolerable pressure at times. The use of volunteers was mooted several times over the last three years, but the use of non-qualified personnel was rejected, the CAA for one would not wear it! The latest suggestion is not to be mixed up with the view, frequently put forward, of all work being done by volunteers. This was a non starter simply because rules on currency and formal qualifications meant full-time aircraft technicians would always be necessary. However, the CAA are quite happy with the concept of trained "Assistants", they will not sign for work, rather they will provide us with physical help under 100% supervision. That is exactly what we need to alleviate the manpower situation of last year, when we all had to be on the job all the time and could not split into shifts effectively. Personally, I think it will work really well and allow us to do a better job in the future.