S. African Lightning crash Update Aug '12

[Mayfly]

No there isn't!!!

Corrected

[Ramshornvortex]

Just recently published on an African based website.....

"Last week the SA CAA released a report on the crash of Thunder City Lightning ZU-BEX 14 November 2009.
Thunder City Rejects SACAA report.
Thunder City was not aware that the SACAA aircraft accident report had been issued, thus we have not had the time to study it in detail; nor were we afforded the opportunity to comment prior to its release, nor were any senior members of Thunder City staff interviewed or statements taken. Our initial findings, after a cursory read, leave us in no doubt that this report is seriously flawed and smacks of a witch hunt.
Even at a superficial level, while the report appears to be thorough, we have found blatant falsehoods, errors, illogical conclusions as well as glaring omissions. Therefore, once we have studied this report in depth, we will pursue all options open to us to ensure that a true and balanced conclusion is reached.
As it stands, is a scandalous and libelous work that at the outset seeks to apportion blame while claiming not to.
It is our intention to embark on a further independent investigation with suitably qualified experts and to present such findings when complete. In the interim Thunder City will seek a court injunction to have this report withdrawn.

Thunder City Management"

[Hihonyr8811]

Blimey

[Ramshornvortex]

Ignore my quote two posts above - it actually refers to the interim report published two years ago - d'oh!

[Nickolas]

So having read what has to be a massive catalogue of events all focussing on taking a life, I'm glad to see that the systems we have in place in this country allow the restoration of ex mil types to flight.
I'd be interested if DB has any thoughts on what the team at Finningley will embark upon post 558?
Have they any plans to contract out to other organisations to say maintain a VC 10 or possibly a Nimrod?

[Bubbles]

It's not like it wasn't known that Thunder City's procedures were a bit dodgy.

[Ducati Boy]

So having read what has to be a massive catalogue of events all focussing on taking a life, I'm glad to see that the systems we have in place in this country allow the restoration of ex mil types to flight.
I'd be interested if DB has any thoughts on what the team at Finningley will embark upon post 558?
Have they any plans to contract out to other organisations to say maintain a VC 10 or possibly a Nimrod?

Hi Nick,

Obviously I cannot comment, in any official capacity what plans the company may have for future use, if any, of the expertise we have accumulated on the Vulcan. So these are my own thoughts not TVOC or VTST.

Without wishing to sound arrogant, I believe we have at TVOC amassed a hugh amount of "how to do it right" practical experience of a complex aircraft restoration and have basically "written the book" on that subject. We have by trial and error to some extent(no one did it before us) ended up with the basis of an effective Complex aircraft restoration and/or operating outfit. We are not perfect and continue to learn and implement improvements.
However, what makes us different to some projects is our over riding concern with safety first practice. We require and enforce rigourous insistance on proper recording of work, correct supervision and a thorough and importantly, an independent QA process. This, through a formal audit programme, constantly checks, checks and checks again, that we follow best practice at the work face and that any inadequate or inappropriate procedures or practices are identified, that training is constantly updated and formal requirements to take and prove corrective actions are completed promply through QA follow up auditing.

I can't speak for the whole team, but I believe TVOC structure is capable of taking on the challenge to restore other complex aircraft, although the Starship Enterprise might be a bridge too far. Our present Engineering and Logistics teams would form the basis of the management and project team. We would employ the necessary expertise to do the actual work. Subject of course to having been given the money pool to pay the bills.

It would be a great shame if all the painfully learned lessons we experienced to reach our M5 status were wasted by simply "demobilising" the team at the end of 558's flying career, so yes bring it on I for one am up for it.

I stress that these are my own opinions and in no way related to TVOC or VTST policy.

[Dougs]

Only issue i can see sadly is the lack of a suitable aircraft unless you got a tsr2

[Dan4th]

What's wrong with a Funbus?????

D.

[Gaz]

Rumours are, HHA have finished with their Buccaneer. I'm just saying!

[Xplumberlives]

Rumours are, HHA have finished with their Buccaneer. I'm just saying!

So that would be another one for taxying at Bruntingthorpe then!

[Gaz]

Rumours are, HHA have finished with their Buccaneer. I'm just saying!

So that would be another one for taxying at Bruntingthorpe then!

DB wants a complex aircraft to get flying........

[Xplumberlives]

Are the C.A.A. just going to roll over then?

[Gaz]

Who'd have thought, way back when, that they'd let the vulcan fly again?

I know some people round here didn't think that'd ever happen

[Ducati Boy]

Are the C.A.A. just going to roll over then?

I don't think its a question of the CAA rolling over Xp.

In practice, now Thunder City have been so severely censured, it is hard to see the CAA giving a permit to anyone in this country wishing to bring a complex aircraft to flight, unless some serious hoops are jumped through.

I suspect the CAA would only consider allowing a complex aircraft to fly if the type had a sound safety record during its military service, that excludes the Lightning and several other types for sure. Also, all necessary documentation to prove provenance of aircraft and spares, plus support from the manufacturer or delegated E4 Engineering Authority would need to be available. In addition I imagine the company doing the restoration, maintenance and operation would need to have a proven infrastructure, including a permanent QA presence and Maintenance Error Management System together with technical ability and experience running a complex aircraft under a proven complex aircraft M5 Exposition. Not many of them about are there, I can only think of one?

[Xplumberlives]

Exactly my point DB, I think the Hunter will be the level that will always be allowed, possibly Hawks, but not Jaguars, Buccaneers or Phantoms.

[Ray C]

There are two twin seater Hunters in the Thunder & Lightning auction ......! I'd pay to ride in one.

What was so Bloody terrible about the Lightning ? the airframe, engines, it's system ,
or just everything ? It scared the shit out of bear pilots.....!

Anyway I still love them.

[Bubbles]

Exactly my point DB, I think the Hunter will be the level that will always be allowed, possibly Hawks, but not Jaguars, Buccaneers or Phantoms.

The Buccaneer already is allowed, they've just not had a contract to use her.

[Ducati Boy]

Exactly my point DB, I think the Hunter will be the level that will always be allowed, possibly Hawks, but not Jaguars, Buccaneers or Phantoms.

The Buccaneer already is allowed, they've just not had a contract to use her.

"They"???? would be who??

[Sooty655]

Exactly my point DB, I think the Hunter will be the level that will always be allowed, possibly Hawks, but not Jaguars, Buccaneers or Phantoms.

The Buccaneer already is allowed, they've just not had a contract to use her.

"They"???? would be who??

"They" would be Hawker Hunter Aviation.

See Gaz's post above ~

Rumours are, HHA have finished with their Buccaneer. I'm just saying!

[Ducati Boy]

So if they have a Buc available and with CAA authority to maintain and fly a complex aircraft, can't see why they don't. If such a beast exists airshows would surely pay up to see it.

[Mayfly]

DT made enquiries when he was at Waddington but HHA have always stated they won't display it, it was intended for military work only.

[Gaz]

I heard a rumour that they would, but, if Duxford think the Vulcan costs a lot......

[Xplumberlives]

Exactly my point DB, I think the Hunter will be the level that will always be allowed, possibly Hawks, but not Jaguars, Buccaneers or Phantoms.

The Buccaneer already is allowed, they've just not had a contract to use her.

Indeed, she is allowed to fly and HHA have waited for work to come in for that airframe and so far nothing has, so I see it as most unlikely that she will ever display due to the cost involved!

[Molerat]

There are two twin seater Hunters in the Thunder & Lightning auction ......! I'd pay to ride in one.

What was so Bloody terrible about the Lightning ? the airframe, engines, it's system ,
or just everything ? It scared the shit out of bear pilots.....!

Anyway I still love them.

The biggest problem was that they leaked like a bucket with holes in and when that leak was fuel or hydraulic oil spurting at high pressure over very hot components they had a habit of bursting into flames in an area with no fire protection. The fires then burnt through essential flying control components. How many aircraft had teams coming in over the xmas break to empty the drip buckets, not drip trays but cut down 1/3rd 45 gallon drums, using a gun pack trolley with 4 x 45 gallon drums on with a pump for emptying the containers into. Special cleaning routines in the jet pipe bays cleaning off the baked on leaked hyd fluid and cleaning out the sticky puddles. X-rays of the fuel couplings in the engine bays to make sure they were engaged enough not to pop apart in flight.

Apart from that they were fine