Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

All military (past & present) aircraft talk, photos, videos etc

Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Lucas1860 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:31 pm

Does this make sense?

This government cant be trusted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... anuts.html
Image
We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucas1860/?saved=1
User avatar
Lucas1860
Boeing C-17 Globemaster III
Boeing C-17 Globemaster III
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:18 pm
Location: Barnsley South Yorkshire
Also Known As: @Aviation1860

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Hula-Hoop » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:38 pm

£34 million even though we spent over £1 billion. SHOCKING
With girls, initiating the conversation is half the battle!

The other half is STOPPING them TALKING!




Dad helped me with the spelling!
User avatar
Hula-Hoop
Boeing B-29 Superfortress
Boeing B-29 Superfortress
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Wittering
Also Known As: SONofXPLUMBER

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:41 pm

And now to look at it from a different perspective, the Harriers were withdrawn from service! They could sit around waiting for someone to pay a higher price, THIS WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!

Alternatively, they could be scrapped, some enevitably will be, this would cost HMG and then US, the TAXPAYER an inordinately higher amount due to the vast amount of CARBON FIBRE in the airframe! The wing is 11 metres across, the ONLY firm in the UK that accepts CARBON FIBRE for SCRAPPING, will only accept in pieces up to 1 metre square!

Angry as I am about the premature demise of an aeroplane I spent a lot of my life with, raking up scare stories like this will not solve the problem, I am very disappointed in the Daily Telegraph for its attitude!
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Sooty655 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:05 pm

Agree 100% with XP. :-o

Even the basic Telegraph argument is specious. Ever tried raising the price of the second hand car you are selling because of the amount you have spent running it? :))
Sooty

One Olympus 301 has twice the power of a complete F1 starting grid.
XM655 has four of them, all serviceable.
When we make noise, WE MAKE NOIZE ! !
User avatar
Sooty655
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 8871
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:17 pm
Location: Weedon, Northants

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Mayfly » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:16 pm

^^^^^^^^^^

Ditto

Now thats two of us who agree with XP - now that is scary!! :p
In memory of a very dear friend - Mike Pearson

Very fond memories of Robbie Gilvary - DTs 1st Vulcan Captain who taught DT all he knew.
User avatar
Mayfly
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 29760
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: Bomber County

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Dan4th » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:17 pm

This is the first I've heard of it, but I
do have to say on the face of things, it
really doesn't seem to make a lot of
sense (except for the USMC...).

Danf.
I like to do my planning retroactively!
User avatar
Dan4th
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
 
Posts: 14733
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine, USA
Also Known As: Token Murkin

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:58 pm

But D4th, they weren't scrapped so that the USMC could benefit, they would have been withdrawn from service any way and then they were put out to tender! [-x
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Dan4th » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:02 pm

My point, though, is why should the
US Marine Corps benefit at the expense
of the UK taxpayer???????

This, to me, is where it gets nonsensical.

Danf.
I like to do my planning retroactively!
User avatar
Dan4th
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
 
Posts: 14733
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine, USA
Also Known As: Token Murkin

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:17 pm

Dan4th wrote:My point, though, is why should the
US Marine Corps benefit at the expense
of the UK taxpayer???????

This, to me, is where it gets nonsensical.

Danf.



How would you get the USMC to pay more, it's a BUYERS MARKET! ~x(
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Mayfly » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:55 pm

It matters little what has been spent on the Harriers in the past or their perceived worth, an item/object whatever it is, is only worth what someone will pay.


And knowing how things work in government if they simply decided to scrap them it would cost HMG a fortune!!
In memory of a very dear friend - Mike Pearson

Very fond memories of Robbie Gilvary - DTs 1st Vulcan Captain who taught DT all he knew.
User avatar
Mayfly
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 29760
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: Bomber County

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:56 pm

Mayfly wrote:It matters little what has been spent on the Harriers in the past or their perceived worth, an item/object whatever it is, is only worth what someone will pay.


And knowing how things work in government if they simply decided to scrap them it would cost HMG a fortune!!




EXACTLY my point!
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Lucas1860 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:07 pm

Good debate, fire in the bellies.

Jim. ;)
Image
We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lucas1860/?saved=1
User avatar
Lucas1860
Boeing C-17 Globemaster III
Boeing C-17 Globemaster III
 
Posts: 1425
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:18 pm
Location: Barnsley South Yorkshire
Also Known As: @Aviation1860

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Jigsaw » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:08 pm

Though it pains me to do so. I agree with XP :p
Kev
User avatar
Jigsaw
Boeing 747
Boeing 747
 
Posts: 6456
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:58 pm
Location: Scunthorpe
Also Known As: photo_lincs

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby MOD » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:36 pm

I can see both sides of this argument. At least after reading the Telegraph's article. My initial thoughts were along the same line as Jim's but after reading XPL's reply I had calmed down and came to agree with Dave, and no that is not an unusual situation!!

However after spending nearly 40 years in what came to be called Risk Management , what really does puzzle me is the 'perceived' idiocy in scrapping such an asset as the Harrier along with the only means of delivering that asset to theatres of operation outside home waters?

It worries me that this Government, and also the last one (I owe allegiance to no political party), never saw the Middle East unrest coming!! Was their conclusion that Gadhafi etc etc were going to be someone else's problem?

As Sandy Woodward said it is a 'crass' decision - but imho opinion not to sell them (at way above their scrap value) but why did we scrap them in the first place? Was it really a Strategic Risk Assessment or a short term cash saving exercise???

Obviously once they are struck off it makes sense to get the best deal for them..


ibw
Image
User avatar
MOD
BAE Hawk
BAE Hawk
 
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:25 pm
Location: Bromsgrove. Worcs. ex East Riding
Also Known As: ibw123Heyfordian etc

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Dan4th » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:56 pm

Well, I'm certain the Jarheads of the USMC
will at the very least put them to good use
and be grateful for the spares.

I'm sure nothing will be wasted.

After our Coast Guard, the Marines are the
most admirable branch of our military.

Even though they are paying, you can count
on thanks and gratitude....

They have budget troubles, too!

Danf.
I like to do my planning retroactively!
User avatar
Dan4th
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
Boeing B-52 Stratofortress
 
Posts: 14733
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine, USA
Also Known As: Token Murkin

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby MOD » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:34 pm

Yes at least we know they are going to a 'good home'.. :ymapplause:

It was,apparently, 2 Lt Cols from the USMC who invented 'VIFFING' ie Vectoring In Forward Flight. Apparently F4 jocks were told not to follow the AV8's if they dived for the deck as they had a habit of VIFFING so that they 'eventually' hung nose down, with zero IAS, and the following/attacking F4 Jocks ran out of room and 'piled in'.

I will miss the Harrier.

ibw
Image
User avatar
MOD
BAE Hawk
BAE Hawk
 
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:25 pm
Location: Bromsgrove. Worcs. ex East Riding
Also Known As: ibw123Heyfordian etc

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Olicat » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:41 pm

What's the point in scrapping them if they are perfectly good enough for another nation? ~x(
Fly fast jets and/or C130s over my house please, I'm bored!

BUCCANEER TO THE SKY!
User avatar
Olicat
Lockheed Constellation
Lockheed Constellation
 
Posts: 4462
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: That way! ↓
Also Known As: Bullet

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:43 pm

Olicat wrote:What's the point in scrapping them if they are perfectly good enough for another nation? ~x(




What about the remaining 40?
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Olicat » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:48 pm

What happens to them?
Fly fast jets and/or C130s over my house please, I'm bored!

BUCCANEER TO THE SKY!
User avatar
Olicat
Lockheed Constellation
Lockheed Constellation
 
Posts: 4462
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: That way! ↓
Also Known As: Bullet

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Olicat wrote:What happens to them?



Start saving your pocket money! ;)
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Olicat » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:51 pm

How long would that take :))
Fly fast jets and/or C130s over my house please, I'm bored!

BUCCANEER TO THE SKY!
User avatar
Olicat
Lockheed Constellation
Lockheed Constellation
 
Posts: 4462
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:59 pm
Location: That way! ↓
Also Known As: Bullet

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Mayfly » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:32 am

In memory of a very dear friend - Mike Pearson

Very fond memories of Robbie Gilvary - DTs 1st Vulcan Captain who taught DT all he knew.
User avatar
Mayfly
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 29760
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: Bomber County

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:49 am

Thanks Pam

Some interesting comments coming in following that report!

As stated the DAILY TELEGRAPH is now regarded as a JOKE as far as DEFENCE REPORTING is concerned!
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Mayfly » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:15 am

Don't read any now, but it was always my newspaper of choice!!
In memory of a very dear friend - Mike Pearson

Very fond memories of Robbie Gilvary - DTs 1st Vulcan Captain who taught DT all he knew.
User avatar
Mayfly
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 29760
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: Bomber County

Re: Harriers is this the reason we scrapped them?

Postby Xplumberlives » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:17 am

Mayfly wrote:Don't read any now, but it was always my newspaper of choice!!



Yes, when I joined up in 1983 that was my daily read, them I moved accross to the Times and now as you say I don't read any now!
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
User avatar
Xplumberlives
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
 
Posts: 41162
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Close to a former Harrier Airfield
Also Known As: ROCKETMAN


Return to Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests