Latest VTST Update from Dr P

[Mayfly]

Latest info I've seen, from Industry Today


Here

So there it is in a nutshell again.

"The airframe has limited time before it will no longer be possible to renew its Permit to Fly," explains Dr Pleming. "After that, we hope to develop a museum and educational centre around the plane, funded by conference, leisure and other commercial activities."

"But if we don't make it through October," concludes Dr Pleming, "The tremendous opportunities offered by this magnificent aircraft will be lost forever."


With the above statement and that they need £400,000 to see it through the winter, I think the bell is tolling now.
I can not see any company actually pumping the cost of 2 years, (which is at the most all she has left), for a zero return.

I will be at Coventry this weekend to say a farewell.
But will the fatcats be there for people to meet them?

Am I mistaken in thinking we were initially told she should have up to 15 years of flying after the restoration?

No, you are not the initial was that she would be aiming for a 10 year display life with the possibility of it being extended to 15 years if all the Mods etc were done and the permits were allowed.
Then there was the subject of the actual running costs which seemed to grow in the first year.

The 15 year was a big wish though.

The 2 years is as indicated on another thread due to the FI's.

It was 4 earlier in the season!!!!

[Xplumberlives]

Air wears planes out quickly!

[Mayfly]

Well even if Sunday is her last flight I'll still be at Coningsby for the LLA Day

[Mayfly]

Heres the latest on Trust website
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/121/82/Press-Release-published.html

Mainly taken from the article mentioned in the above posts but has a couple of extra bits

[Xplumberlives]

We're DOOMED!

[Nickolas]

Yes Pte Fraser, we are all doomed.

[Minty4371]

Heres the latest on Trust website
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/121/82/Press-Release-published.html

Mainly taken from the article mentioned in the above posts but has a couple of extra bits

Where are the extra bits? Both seem identical to me.

[Mayfly]

Oh are they sorry - it was the questions at the bottom I hadn't seen before..


edit: I should have gone to specsavers!!!

[Xplumberlives]

Oh are they sorry - it was the questions at the bottom I hadn't seen before..


edit: I should have gone to specsavers!!! :ymblushing:

INDEED!

[Cluny]

I see the old [very] scaremongering [is that a word] tactics are in use again
I have to admit to feeling bored of her and the whole saga now

[Old Rigger]

I tried to explain on the VTSC forum about the FI that it does not equal the G 'pulled' or have anything to do with flying hours, I think DT would confirm is highly unlikely that many counts of high g were recorded or for that matter not much of the lower figures with the display or transits now being pulled by 558 when flying. i was using the Hunter figures printed on the CAA website for comparison and took worst case scenarios and there was still FI life in the old bird to spare.

When you consider that aircraft have an FI of 100 and structural mods can add FI like I believe the wing mod that was done added 21 FI. Tornados had mods at 12 FI (intake structure), 16FI (wing mods) & 25 FI (cannot remember what this one was for) and they have flown thousands of hours pulled a dam sight more g than 558 will these days and they are not even close to running out of FI, so the original estimates of 15 years with the mods done would be a conservative effort. But if that is the hook/excuse that their hat will be hung from then far be it for me to disbelieve it.

[Stigish]

Not again

I didn't read the latest update as I thought it was just to do with the prize draw/auction.

Now I have, I'm not exactly suprised at what I read. If the weather last year was as poor as it was this year for certain events I don't think 558 would have been flying at all this year. The whole thing is getting very frustrating/boring/repetitive.........I can go on, but I won't.

I too understood she was to have 10years of flight when the restoration was reaching its climax in 2007 (although I'm sure she was to go to Duxford after that???? I don't remember to clearly).

As an Aircraft, for me, she's the best. For my 2yr old son, shes the best, better than all his toys (including Woody & Buzz). I'll be gutted if I never see her fly again. Enjoy seeing her this weekend & someone please make me a DVD of the event

Now, I'm off to brainstorm Mind Map (one for the PC Brigade )

[Spitfire]

Not again

I didn't read the latest update as I thought it was just to do with the prize draw/auction.

Now I have, I'm not exactly suprised at what I read. If the weather last year was as poor as it was this year for certain events I don't think 558 would have been flying at all this year. The whole thing is getting very frustrating/boring/repetitive.........I can go on, but I won't.

I too understood she was to have 10 years of flight when the restoration was reaching its climax in 2007 (although I'm sure she was to go to Duxford after that???? I don't remember to clearly).

As an Aircraft, for me, she's the best. For my 2yr old son, shes the best, better than all his toys (including Woody & Buzz). I'll be gutted if I never see her fly again. Enjoy seeing her this weekend & someone please make me a DVD of the event

Now, I'm off to brainstorm Mind Map (one for the PC Brigade )

Me too So where did 10 reduce to 2 all of a sudden ....oh yes when the management can't find the money or organise that p1ss up in the brewery - that way 'we' havn't lost all that much as it was nearly all over anyway ....wasn't it

[Xplumberlives]

You might have something there!

[Mayfly]

Mick I don't think the mod added 21 FI, if IIIRC it was 15 -

All I know is Fatigue Burn is not as straight forward as it should be for me to understand it!!!!! DT has [tried] to explain it to me [again] this morning & still don't understand enough to comment on it. There are too many factors that come in to play in different circumstances!

With regard to her flying life, the figures I have heard over the years varied from 5 -15 years, at first they thought the engine life would be the factor then realised that Fatigue would have a big part to play.

I never really understood why people are surprised why there is a funding crisis every year, this is a charity - without a large sponsor they will, the same as any other charity, have to ask the public for support. I've always said when the support runs out 558 will stop flying. She always was the darling of the show circuit that hasn't changed but in real life when someone get things for free they'll take as much as they can get - ask them to stick their hands in their pocket & they'll think twice. At the end of her 3rd season only her most avid supporters still gaze in wonder at her, to the general public she just another item to fill an 8 minute slot in the day out at the airshow.

I will be very very sad to see her grounded - but we all know it would happen one day - if anyone wants to make money from it, I suggest you start a councilling practice because there will be many who will have a great hole in their lives once she's on the deck for good!!

[Nickolas]

I never really understood why people are surprised why there is a funding crisis every year, this is a charity - without a large sponsor they will, the same as any other charity, have to ask the public for support. I've always said when the support runs out 558 will stop flying. She always was the darling of the show circuit that hasn't changed but in real life when someone get things for free they'll take as much as they can get - ask them to stick their hands in their pocket & they'll think twice. At the end of her 3rd season only her most avid supporters still gaze in wonder at her, to the general public she just another item to fill an 8 minute slot in the day out at the airshow.

I think it is time to put all the Engineering/education/heritage stuff on the back burner and just tell it as it is.

558 will be grounded for good if we don't raise £400k by the end of October.

We are trying our very best to get major financial backing but major corporates really don't want to be associated with what many still see as a weapon of war.
So it is really down to you the public.....................

We have a hardcore of incredibly loyal supporters but to heap pressure on them again is unfair.
Over a million members of the public saw her fly this year and the only displays we lost were due to weather and ONE technical issue (the aircraft was on static display at the venue). Technically she is working like clockwork.

You all rave about her but if everyone that saw her put a pound (yes £1) in the fund we would be secure for the next year.

WE ARE A CHARITY.

Charities raise money by going out with the begging bowl. Simples.............

[Xplumberlives]

Are you suggesting a straight forward approach without any waffle?

[Nickolas]

Are you suggesting a straight forward approach without any waffle?

Yes why not.

What do they have to loose???

No emotional blackmail, just tell the world EXACTLY how it is.

Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.

[Xplumberlives]

BUT people have memories!!

[Nickolas]

I know but they have had the education engineering stuff rammed down their throats every year.

Just cut to the chase for once.

Be open be honest.

Oh, why has the £400k only been mentioned in a news letter midway through September??

Surely a spread sheet could be employed to track income v funding required, throughout the season so accurate figures are produced so they know where they are show to show.

[Spitfire]

I think its all very well using the words 'The Public' .... but in TVOC terms that actually means 'Avid Supporters' and NOT the great unwashed and the man on the Clapham omnibus

Lets ask those who've been good enough to support us in the past - to support us again - again ... that's what they actually mean.

Its well beyond a joke now and even 'telling it like it is' doesn't really cut much ice as my opinion is that we've got to stop throwing good money after bad and just let it go. £400K now will lead to another crisis for the flying season and round we go again - lets ask 'The Public' .......

[Sooty655]

Surely a spread sheet could be employed to track income v funding required, throughout the season so accurate figures are produced so they know where they are show to show.

The same spreadsheet could have been used to track FI consumption, and possibly to identify practical ways to reduce it.

"Oh sh*t, we will run out of money tomorrow" and "Oh sh*t, we will run out of FI tomorrow" are both symptoms of the same thing, total lack of management.

[Spitfire]

AND - generating any spreadsheet to evaluate anything would mean someone was organised

Hence no spreadsheet

[Old Rigger]

Thanks Pam, obviously DT is correct that the Fatigue Index calculations are complex and all sorts of factors are taken into account. The Vulcan APs will probably still quote the calculation figures based on the original aircraft roles when in service i.e. high level, low level, displays etc. Normal scales can run from +1.7 g through to -6 g in 0.5 increments, again these are not definitive and I am trying to make it simpler than it is by generalising, again modern aircraft can go up to 9/10 g. The CAA might have adjusted those figures for 558 in its current role and restrictions of VFR, but unless they have said each +/- 1g pulled equals 1 FI (which I cannot possibly believe they would do that) then as I have said before the only limiting factors is MONEY, engines and other spares like brake units/chutes etc, sorry forgot another factor, weather, but not the airframe itself. How many FI do the Spitfires/Hurricanes/Lancaster/Dakota/Hunters and all the other old aircraft that are flying got, because I do not hear anyone else saying that they will have little FI left if they don't get funding.

Going by some of the comments I may only have Octobers money left to pay before I find a worthier cause at Bruntingthorpe to give it to, obviously if she is saved at the end of October I will continue to donate but only at the same rate as now.

[Spitfire]

How many FI do the Spitfires/Hurricanes/Lancaster/Dakota/Hunters and all the other old aircraft that are flying got, because I do not hear anyone else saying that they will have little FI left if they don't get funding.

Becasue they are organised and have it sussed so they don't need a funding 'weapon' to attack with