558's Future.

[Mayfly]

This Thread has been edited after discussion by the Mods & at the request of the original poster - THERE ARE ONLY 4 EDITS. 2 by the original poster & two containing quotes or highlights.
I hope this stance is acceptable to all & in keeping with IA's policy.



Mayfly

[Xplumberlives]

Thank you for your sterling efforts!

[Mayfly]

I want a pay rise

[Jigsaw]

Excellent

[Wedgy]

I want a pay rise

You've had your cup of jelly beans this month!!!

This was/is a wonderful thread

[Code monkey]

I want a pay rise

Take a 10% rise, Pam, you deserve it!








Now, let me see....... 10% x nothing = .................................!!



On a more serious note, I have found this discussion very encouraging, both for the manner in which it has been conducted and for the range of ideas considered. Yet again it illustrates how important this old heap of metal is to people.

[RLN]

Did you say we can take the rise out of MF by an extra 10%?

[Xplumberlives]

I want a pay rise

Take a 10% rise, Pam, you deserve it!








Now, let me see....... 10% x nothing = .................................!!

Surely that would equate to an extra 10 jelly beans!

[Code monkey]

Did you say we can take the rise out of MF by an extra 10%?

Only from a safe distance!!

[Nickolas]

No need to duck HH unless TDC sees you have called him an 'Annoying Little blue clad Menace'

Ahem............

TDC Senior has picked up on this...........

Claymores at dawn you heathen.......

And as for you Ms Thwacker..........Strut your stuff Baby...........

XPL your on the same list too.

[Sooty655]

All very good points, but you just know that someone will come online soon and decry what has been posted!

And what makes Iconic worthwhile is that they won't be moderated away, even though they think we should be.

Wonderful Sooty, let's hope you're correct!

Vindicated, I think.

[Mayfly]

You owe me!!!

[Xplumberlives]

Do you have a particular flavour of jelly bean that you prefer?

[Dougs]

im enjoying this thread nice to see peoples opinions on the future of 558.

CHECKFLAPS
'Not ganging up on you here Dougs'
All ok, i see your point and i have to say i agree with both yourself and CG the damage waddo did was huge but i was just trying to say the engineering team (marshals and the engineers) are the people we need right now to keep her flying thats all, i dont want to start arguing about the operational fopar's

[Sooty655]

You owe me!!!

I'll buy you a drink on 19th June.

[Nickolas]

This Thread has been edited after discussion by the Mods & at the request of the original poster - THERE ARE ONLY 4 EDITS. 2 by the original poster & two containing quotes or highlights.
I hope this stance is acceptable to all & in keeping with IA's policy.



Mayfly

115 posts on a VERY volatile subject, no blood spilt and ONLY 4 Edits.

Blooming brilliant every one.

Democracy at it's best (Even if MF is holding the big stick behind her back).

[Za150]

For me, I would like to see 558 flying next year under the current team, purely from the fact that this would keep BaE/Marshalls/CAA/HLF etc happy and at least we would stand a greater chance of her flying this year.

BUT......

If the current funding is obtained (And I still believe it will be)

Maybe an idea would be for the trust to appoint an external auditor to come and look at the way they operate, the processes they have in place, personal they employ etc from the management side of the business. (Not the engineering side as this is well covered by Marshalls/CAA)

Appointing an external auditor for me would provide a completely Un biased view and could ultimately put to the trust any failings they have without the finger pointing.

[Gully]

Za150 - I believe that the change at the top of the Trustees will have the impact you allude to: a more commercial animal in charge now, as far as I understand.

CG - sorry, but I'm not at liberty to break confidences of committee to discuss what options the Club has been exploring to ensure we are well-placed for whatever the future brings. You of all people should know though that with some of the 'characters' on the committee we're not sitting back idly waiting for something to happen!

HH - I was at an event in Worcestershire last weekend, there are 2 club events in Bournemouth in the near future, a presentation / regional launch will be occurring in Manchester shortly and the most recent Pie Night was Lincolnshire way! The Members' Day is in Leicestershire, but that is where the Club is based. The committee roles that Sarah A and I have are to launch Club Regions literally across the country so events are more local for more members.

Waddington - I know this will frustrate the Lincolnshire contingent, but it's old news that's happened and cannot be changed. From what I know, it was fairly and squarely a third party foul-up and there was nothing VTTS could have done that would have changed the situation. One employs expert subbies, but sometimes they get it wrong - sure CF knows the scenario all too well. The big lesson was in respect of communication, not engineering.

Gully

PS. Thanks for the Moderating, MF!

[Sooty655]

Waddington - I know this will frustrate the Lincolnshire contingent, but it's old news that's happened and cannot be changed. From what I know, it was fairly and squarely a third party foul-up and there was nothing VTTS could have done that would have changed the situation. One employs expert subbies, but sometimes they get it wrong - sure CF knows the scenario all too well. The big lesson was in respect of communication, not engineering.

No, no, no. In the real world, the buck ALWAYS stops in-house. If the subbies get it wrong, they are being inadequately managed. If it isn't the manager's fault, then that manager is being paid for doing nothing.

[Code monkey]

Za150 - I believe that the change at the top of the Trustees will have the impact you allude to: a more commercial animal in charge now, as far as I understand.
I do so hope you are correct, Gully, but I still feel that ZA's idea would go a long way to restoring confidence (or proving the doubters right!).

CG - sorry, but I'm not at liberty to break confidences of committee to discuss what options the Club has been exploring to ensure we are well-placed for whatever the future brings. You of all people should know though that with some of the 'characters' on the committee we're not sitting back idly waiting for something to happen!
Would you be one such 'character' perhaps, Mr Gully??!!

Waddington - I know this will frustrate the Lincolnshire contingent, but it's old news that's happened and cannot be changed. From what I know, it was fairly and squarely a third party foul-up and there was nothing VTTS could have done that would have changed the situation. One employs expert subbies, but sometimes they get it wrong - sure CF knows the scenario all too well. The big lesson was in respect of communication, not engineering.
It may be old news but it has had a highly negative effect that continues to be felt in terms of public support locally. Sooty's point is well made with regards to the main contractor having to 'fess up for the errors/omissions of a 'subbie'. Again, I can only hope that the lesson really HAS been learnt on this one.

Gully

PS. Thanks for the Moderating, MF!

Just my fourpennth, thank you for your thoughts Gully - it is appreciated even if we may have to agree to disagree on some points!

Dave

[Oberon]

Gully, (and all ICONIC Forum members),
Thank God someone on here knows:
1. What is happening.
2. Who was responsible for the "Waddington debacle"

I have been monitoring this topic with absolute incredulity from the first post. It seems to me that, despite what had been posted for the past 9 months or so, you still manage to whip yourself into a self-induced frenzy which has no basis in fact.
What you all must realise is that TVOC are unable to point fingers at people who they need to work with in the future.
It beggars belief that all you people that have brains the size of Gas Planets seem to think that TVOC would happily fly to such a prestigious event, such as the RAF Waddington airshow, with a potential stopper in the closet. I appreciate that many, many people were exceedingly disappointed and believe you me, nobody was more put out and embarrassed than we were. Also, unfortunately, TVOC are the front line of: TVOC, VTTST, Marshall Aerospace, CAA, BAe, the fantastic supporters that are the Club et al.

Air - who I would really like to meet - did his very best (as did most of you all) to trash and tarnish the credentials of our Engineering Director. I would like to point out that for the month previous to the permit renewal date, our Engineering Director was in daily contact with the various agencies who were responsible for ensuring that it was renewed. The day that we left Brize for Waddington, he was making entreaties to the relevant organisations seeking confirmation that the permit was in hand. Only after landing, did we receive a call, on Friday afternoon, saying that things had gone wrong at their end and the permit was not being renewed at that point in time.
Do you really think that we would have gone there if we, as the "front man", would expose ourselves to such vitriol that we had to endure from the public (and continue to do so) and the public thrashing that we have had to endure since? (We also knew well beforehand what needed to be done on 603, unfortunately, TVOC were not in a situation to carry out this work, due to a paucity of qualified Airframe Engineers at that time).

With only 4 days to go until I, and the rest of the engineers, have to "sign on" I have really had enough of this cr@p and have decided to speak out, because this is just beyond reason, and my confidentiality clause is starting to look somewhat transparent. There are always 2 sides to every story but, without these Engineers (us) that are currently qualified by the CAA to work to an exacting standard, Bubbles & his wannabee mates can continue to polish panels on Teasin Tina and paint propellors on other grounded aircraft, but I feel that in no way, are they qualified to speak ill on subjects of which they have such scant knowledge, seemingly from a position of strength, without having full facts at their disposal.



Oh by the Way Sooty655, it was refreshing to have you and your mates thank TVOC for giving you about a tons worth of Avionic spares to get 655 up to speed.............. oh, damn, I forget, ...... you didn't. But don't let that get in the way of you having yet another slap at us.




Oberon

(Probably ex-Vulcan Engineer)

[Bubbles]

If it wasn't for the "wannabes" as you put it then there wouldn't have been an aircraft for you to work on at all, and while it isn't nice to be facing the dole you are not the only one, in fact you are lucky that there are a hell of a lot of people doing there damnedest to keep you in your job, theres 2 million people in this country that do not have that kind of support . I did not at any point criticise the engineers. I have also up untill very recently been one of the idiots who have given a lot of my time and expended a great deal of expense to try to keep you and your colleagues in a job. All the expense and time has come from working little more than part time hours on a wage that is a fraction of yours so to be perfectly frank the " im about to be out of work" is wearing a little thin on the likes of me and others who are struggling to find work yet still give up a lot ( and do you really want me to go into what i have personally given up?)

[Bovril]

Oh by the Way Sooty655, it was refreshing to have you and your mates thank TVOC for giving you about a tons worth of Avionic spares to get 655 up to speed.............. oh, damn, I forget, ...... you didn't. But don't let that get in the way of you having yet another slap at us.

thank you for the loan of the equipment

Fingers crossed for all the engineers, we still hope 558 will be in back in the air this season.

[Gaz]

Bubbles & his wannabee mates can continue to polish panels on Teasin Tina and paint propellors on other grounded aircraft, but I feel that in no way, are they qualified to speak ill on subjects of which they have such scant knowledge, seemingly from a position of strength, without having full facts at their disposal.

Now I've said nothing against anyone, but I take that as a personal jab at me.

I get that it was, probably, a shot at Bubbles but nevertheless, I'm not impressed

[Oberon]

Frankly Bubbles, my post wasn't centred about " im about to be out of work". I wasn't looking for your, or anybody elses sympathy and to be honest, I think you have managed to completely ignore what I said in the previous paragraphs.

I tried to shed light on the errors in your statements (and those that followed). If you don't agree with it, then so be it, but at least acknowledge that I probably have more of an insight than you have, as you have acknowledged that you have now distanced yourself from the Vulcan "Debacle", such as it is.

The Guys that did the "Soft Start" programme made sure that the Vulcan would fly again; I acknowledge that, and so would everybody else that has ever been involved. David Walton continues to stand high in the esteem of people such as us (well, certainly me, but I think all of us are singing off the same hymn sheet).

I don't ask that you feel sympathy for me or my colleagues, should all this go to the wall. All I ask is that you understand the reasoning behind my last post and understand that there are other opinions that are not necessarily posted on ICONIC, that could have a more of a basis in fact.


Apologies Gaz, no insult intended, it was just a turn of phrase meant to be read in context with the whole of the post