What happened to XM?

[Bubbles]

After reading this thread which pretty much rehashes whats been said on the other forum at one point or another theres one thing that puzzles me, and thats why would JinR be posting as someone else ? Makes no sense to me at all. To be honest i think theres a little bit of conspiracy theoryitus creeping in. And regarding the comment made about how long the "other" forum will last, not long is the answer if everyones jumping ship.

[Mackrick]

Freedom of Speech springs to mind...

[RLN]

After reading this thread which pretty much rehashes whats been said on the other forum at one point or another theres one thing that puzzles me, and thats why would JinR be posting as someone else ? Makes no sense to me at all. To be honest i think theres a little bit of conspiracy theoryitus creeping in. And regarding the comment made about how long the "other" forum will last, not long is the answer if everyones jumping ship.

I agree about JinR, his style seemed familiar, that's all. Anyway, I thought forums were the breeding ground of conspiracy theories - no definitive info. breeds gossip. I don't think anyone is jumping ship, and if they were the few on this forum won't make any difference, but maybe the several thousand members of TVOC (or whatever it's called - can't remember) who don't use the forum could make a difference.
If this thread is rehashing what has been said on TVOC, don't you think that "What is a shame though is seeing this forum being bad mouthed elsewhere by its own members" is a bit dramatic and inflammatory? Unless, of course, I am wrong and you are not referring to this forum.

[IanM]

After reading this thread which pretty much rehashes whats been said on the other forum at one point or another theres one thing that puzzles me, and thats why would JinR be posting as someone else ? Makes no sense to me at all. To be honest i think theres a little bit of conspiracy theoryitus creeping in. And regarding the comment made about how long the "other" forum will last, not long is the answer if everyones jumping ship.

I agree about JinR, his style seemed familiar, that's all. Anyway, I thought forums were the breeding ground of conspiracy theories - no definitive info. breeds gossip. I don't think anyone is jumping ship, and if they were the few on this forum won't make any difference, but maybe the several thousand members of TVOC (or whatever it's called - can't remember) who don't use the forum could make a difference.
If this thread is rehashing what has been said on TVOC, don't you think that "What is a shame though is seeing this forum being bad mouthed elsewhere by its own members" is a bit dramatic and inflammatory? Unless, of course, I am wrong and you are not referring to this forum.

I noticed that bit too.

Nothing that's been said on here hasn't really been said there before.

[MrTim]

It is only certain aspects of the forum that are being 'bad-mouthed' because they deserve to be. All that deleting, over-zealous moderating and being told off because people speak what they believe. The TVOC VTST VTTSC whatever-it-is forum is still generally OK and people here don't any issues with the vast majority of the people on there (who ARE essentially the forum).

Some may have chosen to bail out completely because of how they have been treated. Others, myself included, continue to frequent both. But I for one am not going to keep quiet if there's something I don't like or don't agree with. It's my right to have my say.

[MadNaddy]

Let he cast the first stone and all that.

I can't think of anyone who hasn't had a bad thing to say about TVOC, VTST or whatever they're called/referred to at one time or another. Some people just have short memories about what they've said thats all

[Saracenman]

is it just me who's a little confused here?

who is accused of bad-mouthing which forum? when and where did this occur?

overall, whatever has occurred, this issue surely shouldn't be what who said when or where, or whether it's been said countless times before or not; isn't the real issue to do with 558/VTST/TVOC/VTSC etc?

it strikes me that any recent 'gripe' that has been voiced before (be it here, on TVOC forum or elsewhere) clearly demonstrates that a) the specific 'problem' is an existing one and b) it should've been solved long ago, negating any need for continued 'moaning'

it's surely very simple isn't it? to stop the 'moaning', correct the problems that are moaned about!

sm

[MadNaddy]

is it just me who's a little confused here?

who is accused of bad-mouthing which forum? when and where did this occur?

overall, whatever has occurred, this issue surely shouldn't be what who said when or where, or whether it's been said countless times before or not; isn't the real issue to do with 558/VTST/TVOC/VTSC etc?

it strikes me that any recent 'gripe' that has been voiced before (be it here, on TVOC forum or elsewhere) clearly demonstrates that a) the specific 'problem' is an existing one and b) it should've been solved long ago, negating any need for continued 'moaning'

it's surely very simple isn't it? to stop the 'moaning', correct the problems that are moaned about!

sm

[MadNaddy]

And - an observation - XM is still checking out the forum on occasion (the occasion's that I'm checking out I've noticed that he's been logged on too) Maybe, like us, he's hoping for some information

[RLN]

After reading this thread which pretty much rehashes whats been said on the other forum at one point or another theres one thing that puzzles me, and thats why would JinR be posting as someone else ? Makes no sense to me at all. To be honest i think theres a little bit of conspiracy theoryitus creeping in. And regarding the comment made about how long the "other" forum will last, not long is the answer if everyones jumping ship.

I agree about JinR, his style seemed familiar, that's all. Anyway, I thought forums were the breeding ground of conspiracy theories - no definitive info. breeds gossip. I don't think anyone is jumping ship, and if they were the few on this forum won't make any difference, but maybe the several thousand members of TVOC (or whatever it's called - can't remember) who don't use the forum could make a difference.
If this thread is rehashing what has been said on TVOC, don't you think that "What is a shame though is seeing this forum being bad mouthed elsewhere by its own members" is a bit dramatic and inflammatory? Unless, of course, I am wrong and you are not referring to this forum.

"What is a shame though is seeing this forum being bad mouthed elsewhere by its own members"
Sorry, should have made it clear. The above quote is from a post by Bubbles on TVOC in a thread in Chit Chat called "Where are you now?" It seems that specifically SM & Wedgy are being missed and people are wondering where you are. I presume that by "elsewhere", Bubbles means Iconic Aircraft. If I am wrong, I apologise unreservedly to Bubbles, and of course, Bubbles has every right to his opinion.

[MrTim]

My signature on the TVOC forum is dropping the hint, but I guess some people just aren't that observant

[Bubbles]

Im not about to name names etc as to who has been slagging the forum off, hopefully the person(s) responsible will maybe think about thier actions and realise that members of the T.V.O.C. also frequent other forums. The comments made by this person were not about specific areas of the forum but the forum in general and as the forum is only as good as its members i was offended to read the comments, more so when the poster is posting on the T.V.O.C. all nicey nicey to everyone.

Now i have the same concerns etc that i have had for ages they havnt gone away but what i have learnt is that the constant barracking of whatever the hell they are called isnt going to make the slightest bit of diffrence and doing it on here is going to make even less of a diffrence, do what i and others are doing and actually get off arses and make changes, might not happen over night but its better than sitting around shouting into a vacum isnt it?

Oh and it would be nice if you would comment and disect my posts on the actuall forum i posted on

[Coastergirl]

To avoid any crossed-wires, just to let you know I've just posted this on the TVOC forum:

Do you think things have changed?

In the last year, even the last few months, we have spent hours discussing the merits of how the VOC have handled the project and the forum, of how the relationship between us all has fared; are we investors or customers? I firmly believe that the only thing that has got us through this last year has been the friendships and family we have built up on here; if it weren't for that, then there would be no sense of belonging, and no sense of loyalty. Every time we became annoyed at the way the project was being handled we would have walked away - but because our hearts were here, with the aircraft and with our friends, we didn't walk away. We stayed.

I say all this because I am worried that our things are changing; I'm not normally one to fear change and I know there is belief out there that change is often good - but I wonder if an increasing divide in a group of friends can ever be a good thing? I suspect not.

I'm not saying that I think things are perfect, because they aren't, but in my opinion things are a lot better than they used to be. I feel we do get honesty from TVOC now, the homepage is being updated, there is a petition signature request on the home page. I think Dickon has done a wonderful job on the committee - we have loads of fundraisers and lots of fun activities going on, with more in the pipelines - we've even been camping! The forum is a calmer and happier place to be in now!

No-one knows what the future holds for XH558, and I'm not one for rose-tinted glasses, I can appreciate as well as you all can that we may be coming to the end of her flying days (although I refuse to give in yet!!) I don't know about you, but whatever happens I am not going to stop fighting for her... If we go down, we go down fighting! I'll keep supporting the cause, raising what money I can and spreading the word where possible and in the meanwhile I will look forward to our Christmas party and the Vulcan shaped decorations I am going to make!

You all know me, I'm fairly happy sitting on the fence and I have a tendency to see the best in people and miss some of the grim aspects but I wouldn't say I'm firmly in either camp; I honestly believe things are so much better these days. Pick it apart if you want, I have a flak jacket on, lol!

Rachel x

[Saracenman]

it's all too easy to get the wrong end of the stick when simply reading the 'written' word from a screen, and i think you have summed things up rather well CG.

even so, whilst certain aspects of TVOC's actions have changed, i still fear that many worrying fundamentals haven't. i can't help thinking that things such as the [more] regular updates on the homepage, for example, are done merely because we will 'moan' otherwise.

many of us are only too aware of the views of some of the TVOC employees toward the Club and its members - it's THIS that needs change, along with several other major attitudes, rather than the superficial issues. that's not to belittle what has been bettered at long last- we're finally getting there - but perhaps it's a case of closing the stable door after the horse has buggered off?

does 558 have the necessary funds to see the project survive long enough for other changes to take effect?

sm

[Coastergirl]

I don't know, SM, I really don't.

What I do believe, though, is that at this stage all the moaning and finger pointing in the world is not going to make any difference. The only difference it can make now, is to bring disharmony to the family we have all become. Wouldn't it be sad if we lost our permit and our circle of friends at the same time?

[Mackrick]

Rachel

Some very sound words in that post.
I for one have been a supporter for many years, I have a what I like to think is a good friendship with many of the 558 supporters and the ground crew (some of which I have worked both with, and for in the past). There is plenty of banter on many of the forums both good and bad, yet at the end of the day the majority of people want to see things continue and will do as much as possible to support 558. While hindsight is a wonderful there are things that could have been handled differently, rather than what appears to be a blinkered approach. At the end of the day nobody wants this to be the last time 558 ever flies. Continued support from everyone is needed to ensure future flights. I hope that once 558 returns to Brunty (If she does) then everyone will have a chance to review the past 12 months activities and look to the future.

[Bubbles]

it's all too easy to get the wrong end of the stick when simply reading the 'written' word from a screen, and i think you have summed things up rather well CG.

even so, whilst certain aspects of TVOC's actions have changed, i still fear that many worrying fundamentals haven't. i can't help thinking that things such as the [more] regular updates on the homepage, for example, are done merely because we will 'moan' otherwise.

many of us are only too aware of the views of some of the TVOC employees toward the Club and its members - it's THIS that needs change, along with several other major attitudes, rather than the superficial issues. that's not to belittle what has been bettered at long last- we're finally getting there - but perhaps it's a case of closing the stable door after the horse has buggered off?

does 558 have the necessary funds to see the project survive long enough for other changes to take effect?

sm

At the end of the day the reasons for the changes are less important than the changes themselves, and i personally have seen for myself a diffrence in attitude towards the forumers.

[RLN]

Im not about to name names etc as to who has been slagging the forum off, hopefully the person(s) responsible will maybe think about thier actions and realise that members of the T.V.O.C. also frequent other forums. The comments made by this person were not about specific areas of the forum but the forum in general and as the forum is only as good as its members i was offended to read the comments, more so when the poster is posting on the T.V.O.C. all nicey nicey to everyone.

Now i have the same concerns etc that i have had for ages they havnt gone away but what i have learnt is that the constant barracking of whatever the hell they are called isnt going to make the slightest bit of diffrence and doing it on here is going to make even less of a diffrence, do what i and others are doing and actually get off arses and make changes, might not happen over night but its better than sitting around shouting into a vacum isnt it?

Oh and it would be nice if you would comment and disect my posts on the actuall forum i posted on

I apologise for that Bubbles. It would have been common courtesy to do so.

[Coastergirl]

Agree with you totally, Mackrick, and in no way am I saying that lessons shouldn't be learned... I think that the management of this project should spend a whole weekend picking apart everything that has happened so far and take the good and the bad... all I am saying is that as supporters/customers/investors at this stage of the game, we don'thave the power to do that analzying. I almost said it isn't our place, but it is our aircraft, so it IS our place. In fact, its more than our place, it is our responsibility to question the decisions those in power make on our behalf. However, we are at a unique place in this story: we have no time left in the sandglass and the time for "forcing them to change by striking" has passed. This really is the final hour and it is a case of all cheerleaders front and centre, your best uniform, biggest smile and strongest grip. The pyramid might still fall, but at least we will all be together and know we did what we could. Anyone who is left in the changing rooms, still moaning, can't say that.

[Saracenman]

i agree all round

as goes friendships CG - again i agree, it's not JUST about 558 ultimately. i genuinely believe that there is little that could damage the many and varied friendships forged through 558's support.

blood may well be thicker than water, but i strongly suspect that this particular water is considerably thicker than Jet A1

sm

[Mackrick]

Lets all keep smiling guys n gals dont go all morbid on me.... PLEASE

[MrTim]

Not on your nelly I think this forum has given a many of us chance to let off a bit of steam. Sometimes you need to after feeling like you're banging you head against a brick wall. But we're fighting on for '558. I am a realist, but I'm also an optimist and I believe that one way or another we will succeed.

[Mackrick]

Free Speech I'm all for it ...

[Saracenman]

Free Speech I'm all for it ...

that comment will cost you a fiver mate

[Coastergirl]

what are you doing with all these jellybeans you keep accruing??