558 Funding Update

[Yorkie]

I'm an outsider here, but wouldn't it benifit 558 for DW to aquire her back?

he knows how to run a business!

[Xplumberlives]

I wonder if we could afford to ask him to consider buying her back!


Just how much is still owed to this man?

[Yorkie]

I wonder if we could afford to ask him to consider buying her back!


Just how much is still owed to this man?

Whatever is still owed, just brings the price down

he clearly has a love for aircraft, he owns a ruddy great runway (that has approval for 558) and he would know how to sort the staff (board not engineering) out.

[Xplumberlives]

I wonder if it really is an option?

[Yorkie]

Does anyone know DW well enough to ask?

Or DW & EddieF 50/50

(this is all assuming that the current board would sell)

[Mayfly]

it has always been said that if they were to sell 558 the HLF would need to be paid back their £3.73 M so I can't see the trust selling 558 & getting enough money - RP says 558 is valued at £10M - but shes only worth what someone will pay.

[Yorkie]

it has always been said that if they were to sell 558 the HLF would need to be paid back their £3.73 M so I can't see the trust selling 558 & getting enough money - RP says 558 is valued at £10M - but shes only worth what someone will pay.

This must mean in realistic terms that if we were to find someone willing to "buy" then they would have to take over or "buy" the trust, keep the trust intact (less a few board members) and then bankroll 558 themselves?

am i reading that right, may be me having an old man moment

[Dan4th]

I'm assuming that legalities are the same in
both our countries, but The Trust do not "Own"
the aircraft. They are simply charged with
her Wellbeing and Operation. If The Trust
should bite the dust, then another Trustee
would need to be named. I do not believe
The Trust have the right to sell the aircraft
to anyone, and even if they could and did,
what would become of the MONEY?

No, if The Trust has to ultimately yell "Uncle",
then the entire thing (to include 558, parts,
ground crew, DEBTS, etc.) could simply be
transferred to an as-yet-to-be-named third
party, subject to judicial approval.

Assuming the current trustees wouldn't be
obstructive JERKS and hold-out for some sort
of Cash Settlement or Fat Severance Packages
for two certain managers, then this transfer
ought to be a Very Simple Thing. It is only
complicated if the current Trust choose to
make it that way.

If all parties involved simply want to see 558
flying into the future and place this as the
Top Priority, then we are dealing with what
amounts to a smooth and beneficial transfer.

XH558 belongs to the British People, and the
British People DESERVE to see her flying for
years to come. It is painfully obvious to this
Slimey Murkin that the current regime is
incapable of making this happen.

Dan4th

[Yorkie]

although we don't want to have to pay big cash settlements or severence packages, if it got rid of said obstructive JERKS then surely it's a price worth paying?

we just need to get someone in charge of the trust who A) wants 558 in the air B) has cash C) knows how to run a business.

Whilst there are psople out there who fit all 3, they won't get involved for whatever reason whilst the current trust is in place.

[Dan4th]

IF you were the Head Honcho of a
large concern and IF you wanted to
sponsor 558 over a period of years
and IF you took a good, hard look
at the present organization.........

Well? What would YOUR decision be?

The whole key to this is in Who Takes Over.

And it's NOT "The Economy" or potential
major sponsors doing belt-tightening.......

Dan4th

[Ducati Boy]

I'm an outsider here, but wouldn't it benifit 558 for DW to aquire her back?

he knows how to run a business!

Assuming that Dave (and the company) would want it back, they could probably absorb some of the current costs such as Hangarage, Admin, Technical workshops and storage facilities to make a saving on current costs and of course, they have a runway. However, there would still be the cost of maintaining an operating structure acceptable to the CAA and that would be costly. Also, without that structure she could not fly unless her new "caretakers" employed an acceptable BCAR A8-20 M5/E4 company to do the work. It doesn't take a genious to see that would cost more than the current system. There is also the issue of an operating base, Bruntingthorpe is not a place where she could regularly operate out of and into. The cost of making it so would be astranomical and thats assuming that planning permission could be achieved and DW's compaby would accept the loss of Proving Ground revenue, and of course the expense of running a permanent airport facility.

As a proven business man, DWand his share holders would very probably not want to commit to such a financial risk.

[Dan4th]

None of the above matters, because 558
cannot be "Owned" and therefore, in all
likelihood, not "Sold". I doubt very much
if any profit-making entity would be
allowed to be the caretaker/operator of
this aircraft.

Aircraft, Spares, Records, Debts, All
Certifications and Other Maintenance
Agreements PLUS the Rest of the
Organization from Taff On Down needs
to go to a new Caretaker with the
Correct People in charge.

D.

[Yorkie]

None of the above matters, because 558
cannot be "Owned" and therefore, in all
likelihood, not "Sold". I doubt very much
if any profit-making entity would be
allowed to be the caretaker/operator of
this aircraft.

Aircraft, Spares, Records, Debts, All
Certifications and Other Maintenance
Agreements PLUS the Rest of the
Organization from Taff On Down needs
to go to a new Caretaker with the
Correct People in charge.

D.

No but, if someone took over as "caretaker" and kicked the people that need kicking into touch, then support 558 financially. that has to be better than we have? we were always talking about a sponsor so why not have someone like DW as sponsor/caretaker.

and 558 SHOULD make money, not loose it. does Sally B loose money on every airshow she attends? I know she can land at every show so transit costs are lower but still to loose money at every show is poor if not suicidal.

[Gaz]

Tina, for one! Gimme a Victor over a Vulcan any day!!

Prep work started today on Victor repaint...... Gulf War Pink is showing all over the place....

Excellent! David Walton told us ('us' being the VTS Club people on the Autosport stand) last week that the Comet's getting a re-paint too

Gully

Yep, once Tina's finished, Canopus is going in! Excititng times at Bruntingthorpe!

[Xplumberlives]

ALL of the above is very interesting!

[Yorkie]

IT is, however it is all hypothetical, the only person that knows if DW is interested is DW.

[Xplumberlives]

Indeed!

[Sooty655]

It's all very well discussing possible new "owners", but it is the existing mob who are the problem. With two thirds of January gone, the appeal total hasn't yet reached even the December target, and looks likely to still be short of it at month end.

When is reality going to kick in?

(Yeah, I know, it's a stupid question, but someone has to ask)

[Xplumberlives]

It's all very well discussing possible new "owners", but it is the existing mob who are the problem. With two thirds of January gone, the appeal total hasn't yet reached even the December target, and looks likely to still be short of it at month end.

When is reality going to kick in?

(Yeah, I know, it's a stupid question, but someone has to ask)

Rose tinted spectacle production is on the rise!

[Mayfly]

None of the above matters, because 558
cannot be "Owned" and therefore, in all
likelihood, not "Sold". I doubt very much
if any profit-making entity would be
allowed to be the caretaker/operator of
this aircraft.

Aircraft, Spares, Records, Debts, All
Certifications and Other Maintenance
Agreements PLUS the Rest of the
Organization from Taff On Down needs
to go to a new Caretaker with the
Correct People in charge.

D.

No but, if someone took over as "caretaker" and kicked the people that need kicking into touch, then support 558 financially. that has to be better than we have? we were always talking about a sponsor so why not have someone like DW as sponsor/caretaker.

and 558 SHOULD make money, not loose it. does Sally B loose money on every airshow she attends? I know she can land at every show so transit costs are lower but still to loose money at every show is poor if not suicidal.

So whats the alternative? Airshows can't afford to pay her total running costs & if she didn't appear at them she wouldn't even be flying as theres no other market for her at this time!

[Sooty655]

It's all very well discussing possible new "owners", but it is the existing mob who are the problem. With two thirds of January gone, the appeal total hasn't yet reached even the December target, and looks likely to still be short of it at month end.

When is reality going to kick in?

(Yeah, I know, it's a stupid question, but someone has to ask)

Rose tinted spectacle production is on the rise!

They'll need to be so dark no part of the real world can intrude.

[Yorkie]

It's all very well discussing possible new "owners", but it is the existing mob who are the problem. With two thirds of January gone, the appeal total hasn't yet reached even the December target, and looks likely to still be short of it at month end.

When is reality going to kick in?

(Yeah, I know, it's a stupid question, but someone has to ask)

but unless we hit those targets, the only outcome is going to be new owners (either administrators or a last minute buyer offering to take control and bank roll it ie. DW)

With regards to the lottery funding having to be repaid, if administrators were to come in 558 would never pay the NLHF back, so would they accept a new owner as long as they met the funds criteria?

It's the current trust that are the issue and the sooner they realise the better for all.

[Dan4th]

How many times do I have to say that
from a legal standpoint no one would
be allowed to "Own" 558?

She cannot be held by a profit-making
organization of any kind. She can't be
owned or operated by any kind of sponsor.

Trusteeship desperately needs to go to
Respected, Well-Known individuals who
have demonstrated skills and experience
in historic aircraft operation and the rest
of the organization from Taff on down
needs to be kept intact.

Dan4th

[Xplumberlives]

It's all very well discussing possible new "owners", but it is the existing mob who are the problem. With two thirds of January gone, the appeal total hasn't yet reached even the December target, and looks likely to still be short of it at month end.

When is reality going to kick in?

(Yeah, I know, it's a stupid question, but someone has to ask)

Rose tinted spectacle production is on the rise!

They'll need to be so dark no part of the real world can intrude.

[Mayfly]

How many times do I have to say that
from a legal standpoint no one would
be allowed to "Own" 558?

She cannot be held by a profit-making
organization of any kind. She can't be
owned or operated by any kind of sponsor.

Trusteeship desperately needs to go to
Respected, Well-Known individuals who
have demonstrated skills and experience
in historic aircraft operation and the rest
of the organization from Taff on down
needs to be kept intact.

Dan4th

I believe the new Chair to be a dymanic fellow & I have known his new second in command for a number of years personally - As far as the Trustees go I think 558 is in as good hands as she ever has been.