Latest VTST Update from Dr P

[Pujgnie]

I may be alone in keeping attempting to keep the faith here.

Look at the positives - All the major fund sapping has been done with the U/C leg and Wing Spar mods this year. So any new funding/pleas should (hopefully) NOT be as much as last years. We have a fully serviceable aircraft to show for it - complete with competent/dedicated aircrew and groundcrew.

558 dipped out on a huge loss of 'predicted' earnings this year - mainly due to weather. Through NO fault of the aircraft or the enginners - could this be accounted for. 'Sods law' again - puts her future in the balance.

We all knew there would be another Winter appeal to keep her flying.. (if there was not one - I would question why ? ) after all - we have become used to it since 2007.

Maybe this year it will be a attainable and reachable figure - that we (as a team) can help attain.

How can we stand by and watch her slip away. Once gone - forever gone this time.

JMO

[PhantomAviator]

O... M ....G

Exactly as predicted - and right on cue

She was built to combat the growing menace of the Soviet Union during the Cold War and is the last of 136 Vulcans still flying today. But now she's fighting to stay in the air. The money that funds her is about to run out.

Sean Maffett from Vulcan to the Sky, said: "She is actually formally going to run out of funds in about three weeks in which case the permanent staff which look after her. The engineering and logistics staff will have to be given four weeks notice. We hope that something will be pulled out of the hat in time."

After 13 years of being grounded, the Avro Vulcan was brought back to life in 2007 thanks to a £7 million restoration campaign. Affectionally nicknamed "The Tin Triangle" she needs at least £1 million per year to remain fit to fly.

Sean added: "We would really love them to get in touch with our website which is http://www.vulcantothesky.org and by doing that they could become members of the club or they could just contribute. But please get in touch. We would really love to hear from you."

The message is clear. With a bit of help from her fans, it's hoped this Vulcan can live long and prosper.

Too little - Too Late

When WILL they learn - you can't keep calling on 'the fans'

Its a bloody shambles and a disgraceto the engineers and aircrew who have worked so hard to provide such a good season on which to build a funding base

So there it is in a nutshell.
The Engineers are on four weeks notice in three weeks time AGAIN.
Logistics also, but let's face it the engineers can do the logistics, so there's a saving.
What amazes me this year is that they choose to announce this sort of thing at such a time.
I suppose though that we can all say that we saw it coming at the start of the season.
Well I wish the Engineers the best of luck in finding new employment, that is unless RP has something up his sleeve this year.
Last year was as close to a bl**dy miracle as he could manage to pull. This year i don't think will be so lucky.
But let's wait and see.

Anyone out there won the lottery and is keeping quiet about it?

You know it only takes 1 million a year to keep her airbourne.

[Mayfly]

Without a major sponsor I don't see where else they can get their money but from the public. It's how and when they are asked and how they are treated that matters!!!

What I do question is the wisdom of declaring at the club day in March they wouldn't be doing Northern airshows to save FI. What's the point of saving FI if you don't have the money to operate her the following year? 558 needs to be out there speaking for herself. If there was money in the bank to see her through next year I could understand it.

In 2009 there were 10,000 donations, in 2010 that number fell to 4,000. It was only a large bequest that bailed them out. To my mind by not doing venues 'Oop North' [Leuchars excepted] they will have reduced that 4,000 even further....there's just no way I can't see a knock on effect, tho' would love to be proved wrong.

[Nickolas]

4,000 is now down to 3,999 because at the moment I really can't be arsed.

I spoke to Dr Bob at Lyneham in April this year and he was quite forthcoming that raising awareness and getting the money in was this years goal. Last year their eye came off the fundraising ball with ensuring 'exposure'. Well they did expose her aright but the cash grab failed.

This season they want to preserve FI's AND cash grab........... You can't have the cake and eat it with this plan.
It's absurd.

The gentle reminder during the display falls on deaf ears (blame 558 for causing the deafness) as everyone is focussed on the A/c.

The media are totally uninterested now as they have done this pleading bit every year............

I have no truck with all those people that have worked their bits off to raise money. I have an issue with the Trust and their approach.


NOT a terribly happy chappie..............

[PhantomAviator]

4,000 is now down to 3,999 because at the moment I really can't be arsed.

I spoke to Dr Bob at Lyneham in April this year and he was quite forthcoming that raising awareness and getting the money in was this years goal. Last year their eye came off the fundraising ball with ensuring 'exposure'. Well they did expose her aright but the cash grab failed.

This season they want to preserve FI's AND cash grab........... You can't have the cake and eat it with this plan.
It's absurd.

The gentle reminder during the display falls on deaf ears (blame 558 for causing the deafness) as everyone is focussed on the A/c.

The media are totally uninterested now as they have done this pleading bit every year............

I have no truck with all those people that have worked their bits off to raise money. I have an issue with the Trust and their approach.


NOT a terribly happy chappie..............

Well one does have to understand the Management Plan they have in force at present and will be using for the distant future.

LOOK AFTER THE MANAGEMENT bugger the rest they can be made redundant.

Way back when the plan was to have her flying for the Falklands 25th, came and went.
Next her 50th.
That was and has been done this season.
2012?
Let's not even go there as they will still be asking all the patriots for more money upto and after to continue paying The Management.

3,398

[Nickolas]

I thought Dr Bob was leaving us anyway.............

[Hungry Haggis]

I recall reading somewhere that the trust had a new top dog can't remember who it is or even where I read it .However I do seem to recall in that message I read that the boom & bust of past years was now a thing of the past Fund raising was to begin for next year etc That was sometime around April I think (OH hang on could it have been around April the 1st).As for Ooop North even though they are saying now that 6 Sqn Typhoons are being base mainly at Leuchars I have heard from friends up there that Leuchars has now been lumped in with Losiemouth & Kinloss in the defense review as in will it be closed or will it continue could 558s appearance in Scotland this last week be her last in more ways than one north of the border.I agree that the press has in fact lost interest Look back at the Daily Mail this year they printed a story yes but the punch line I think was get on your bike our readers are fed up and won't bail you out again.even my old contacts at the Courier are not as receptive as they were,OK I read on the other site that she was being featured in some magazine aimed at aircraft people .They do say she is the peoples aircraft so get her in the national press more often and in a positive strain then people could well put their hands in their pockets and fish out some readies.These instant OH Cr*p money is about to or even has run out announcements regardless of where they begin are not the way for wards.Can anyone be sure that this one started in TVOC or not if not where & has anyone from there actually said the engineers Taff & the crew are going to be put on notice & that before the end of her flying season as well. A sure way to demoralize people and spread alarm about the end of something that is a success in it's own right.Personally I think people are jumping the gun or is it down to the individuals that dislike the popularity of the Vulcan and also the success of her flying seasons so far.
Yes I have read Dr Bobs 3rd Sept stuff he does admit there is a problem he also says that less people are donating this year but looking at the figures I notice that the per person figure is not that much different 4600 was average £87 a head 10000 was averaged at £79.5 a head I also agree that they can not rely on the membership of the club to bail them out again no one has a bottomless pit of spare money .Will she pull through and fly next year I can only wait and see.

Without a major sponsor I don't see where else they can get their money but from the public. It's how and when they are asked and how they are treated that matters!!!

What I do question is the wisdom of declaring at the club day in March they wouldn't be doing Northern airshows to save FI. What's the point of saving FI if you don't have the money to operate her the following year? 558 needs to be out there speaking for herself. If there was money in the bank to see her through next year I could understand it.

In 2009 there were 10,000 donations, in 2010 that number fell to 4,000. It was only a large bequest that bailed them out. To my mind by not doing venues 'Oop North' [Leuchars excepted] they will have reduced that 4,000 even further....there's just no way I can't see a knock on effect, tho' would love to be proved wrong.

[RLN]

Well I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It is a charity - Stick ads on cable/Sky as per RSPCA etc. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't effective. What's to lose -a few hundred quid if it doesn't work - but it doesn't matter anyway, because if they don't do something, we won't hear that howl except in our memories...................unless DR. Bob knows different.

[Sploosher]

As stated by me earlier tonight on the Vulcan forums, if 558 has to go down the begging bowl route again,I ( with all the pressure at home and work) will be bowing out when my membership expires...........

[Old Rigger]

Bum, despite what I have been reading on various fora I was determined not to post again but sorry folks could not resist :

Spitfire: yes they are expecting the ‘fans’ to do it again as we are all they have, but they are calling them the ‘loyal club members’, or the ‘positive people’ or the ‘non doom mongers’ or the ‘core faithful’ or any other name that is in current flavour.

Pujgnie: No you’re not alone in attempting to keep the faith, but there comes a time that for whatever reason you get to the point that keeping the faith becomes untenable for various reasons, for some it is changing circumstances financially, for others it is that no matter how much you don’t want to let the engineers/aircrew and club members who work tirelessly to provide the Vulcan village/stands at shows so the rest of us get to see a flying Vulcan, that when it comes constant emotional blackmail (and make no bones about it that it was it is, as who wants to be accused of not donating and letting the aforementioned people be put out of a job after all they have done) to get the club members to bust a gut feeding the black hole, that’s when it finally the straw that breaks the camel’s back I am afraid.

Also quite a lot of club members said in 2008 that if they had not got the finances sorted for 2009 during the 2008 flying season and came to us with begging bowls we would not continue to support the aircraft, they still did and a lot did still donate with the proviso that if they did it for 2010 then again that would be it, they did, a lot did not donate hence the total donated being half what it was before and make no bones about it if that wonderful person had not donated that money 558 would be still sat on jacks at Lynham going nowhere.

So once again some of those ‘left’ stated once again that you better get it sorted during 2010, not at the end or at the beginning of 2011 and apparently, or so it seems, here we are again so forgive me for not ‘keeping the faith’ but that is pushing your luck once too often, I do not like to be made to feel guilty or feel like I am being emotionally manipulated or feel like I am being taken for a ride.

For example I made it known some time back that my wife supported my financial support for 558 on the proviso that I gave the same to H4H, unfortunately the way they have gone is making me re-consider that outlay and give to a smaller but just as worthwhile charity that supports the forces, as I may well divert what I am currently doing for 558 to other deserving aircraft causes that I have a soft spot for and the people that maintain them.

[Spitfire]

For example I made it known some time back that my wife supported my financial support for 558 on the proviso that I gave the same to H4H, unfortunately the way they have gone is making me re-consider that outlay and give to a smaller but just as worthwhile charity that supports the forces, as I may well divert what I am currently doing for 558 to other deserving aircraft causes that I have a soft spot for and the people that maintain them.

Pretty much the same for me - although I've been doing that for a while now - no more to XH I'm afraid .... and I don't mind naming my 'soft spot' ... my little bit goes to LPG now It just blows me away what they've achieved there - and you couldn't wish to meet a more likeable and helpful and genuine bunch of people.

[Dee]

Have to admit i was gutted to learn there's not much left to keep her going yet again!! And as im not able to work anymore i cant justify pumping the sort of money into it that i was doing,but,,,I just cant walk away from her. Im so proud when i am lucky enough to see her fly that i'll carry on my support with my membership and thats about all i can do finacially

[Minty4371]

New style newsletter just received from Vulcan. http://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/wlnk/c/1216/r/26526/e/10 Hope the link works.

[Mayfly]

Oh dear looks I'm at odds with most - I don't like this new style email - I do admit it looks more professional but to me it's just a copy of the main page off the forum - I thought the other one at least looked it had been written to me & not just a mass emailing...

[Minty4371]

Oh dear looks I'm at odds with most - I don't like this new style email - I do admit it looks more professional but to me it's just a copy of the main page off the forum - I thought the other one at least looked it had been written to me & not just a mass emailing...

I have to agree with you. I liked the old version, easier to read.

[Spitfire]

I didn't like it either ....so I unsubscribed

[Gully]

I like the new newsletter - particularly the bit where the Club is credited for paying the Coventry fuel bill

As for funding, without a substantial injection from a sponsor or philanthropist I can't see that operating '558 is sustainable. All the indications are that public financial support is on the wane, so unless one of the Farnborough leads is ultimately successful, then the Trust is up the proverbial creek IMO (no, the Club Committee is not privvy to any inside info!). Of course, the other side of the equation is COST. If there is to be a long-term future, my view is that engineering / operating costs needs to be shared with another classic jet operator.

Gully

[Mayfly]

How would you visualising that working Gully?

I can see sharing some facilities could cut some costs but wouldn't have thought they would get a better deal than last year, & who would want to take a share of an a/c that can't earn her keep? Or am I missing something?

[Ducati Boy]

How would you visualising that working Gully?

I can see sharing some facilities could cut some costs but wouldn't have thought they would get a better deal than last year, & who would want to take a share of an a/c that can't earn her keep? Or am I missing something?

Blimey, you know of aircraft that actually earn their keep?? Spill the beans mate, loads of owners, not to mention shed loads of international airlines, will be pleased to see how thats done.

[Mayfly]

As I asked Gully - How does he see it working?

No I don't know of an A/C on the display circuit that earns their keep but most don't cost well over £1M either.

We all know 558 is big financial black hole - I can't see anyone really wanting 'share' costs when the Trust struggle to pay their way now......unless of course there is a huge reconstruction of the whole set up.

As ever would love to be proved wrong.

[Mayfly]

Latest info I've seen, from Industry Today


Here

[Minty4371]

Oh no. Doesn't look good does it . First I had heard about it. I wonder when the email will arrive to all the supporters. Spotted the story on the Vulcan Forum. Was going to post here, but was beaten to it. An average of £13,000 per day.

[PhantomAviator]

Latest info I've seen, from Industry Today


Here

So there it is in a nutshell again.

"The airframe has limited time before it will no longer be possible to renew its Permit to Fly," explains Dr Pleming. "After that, we hope to develop a museum and educational centre around the plane, funded by conference, leisure and other commercial activities."

"But if we don't make it through October," concludes Dr Pleming, "The tremendous opportunities offered by this magnificent aircraft will be lost forever."

With the above statement and that they need £400,000 to see it through the winter, I think the bell is tolling now.
I can not see any company actually pumping the cost of 2 years, (which is at the most all she has left), for a zero return.

I will be at Coventry this weekend to say a farewell.
But will the fatcats be there for people to meet them?


And as at 18:00hrs no official statement on the TVOC site either.
But then they probably have not been told yet, they will be finding out from this site instead.

[Xplumberlives]

Latest info I've seen, from Industry Today


Here

So there it is in a nutshell again.

"The airframe has limited time before it will no longer be possible to renew its Permit to Fly," explains Dr Pleming. "After that, we hope to develop a museum and educational centre around the plane, funded by conference, leisure and other commercial activities."

"But if we don't make it through October," concludes Dr Pleming, "The tremendous opportunities offered by this magnificent aircraft will be lost forever."


With the above statement and that they need £400,000 to see it through the winter, I think the bell is tolling now.
I can not see any company actually pumping the cost of 2 years, (which is at the most all she has left), for a zero return.

I will be at Coventry this weekend to say a farewell.
But will the fatcats be there for people to meet them?

Am I mistaken in thinking we were initially told she should have up to 15 years of flying after the restoration?

[PhantomAviator]

Latest info I've seen, from Industry Today


Here

So there it is in a nutshell again.

"The airframe has limited time before it will no longer be possible to renew its Permit to Fly," explains Dr Pleming. "After that, we hope to develop a museum and educational centre around the plane, funded by conference, leisure and other commercial activities."

"But if we don't make it through October," concludes Dr Pleming, "The tremendous opportunities offered by this magnificent aircraft will be lost forever."


With the above statement and that they need £400,000 to see it through the winter, I think the bell is tolling now.
I can not see any company actually pumping the cost of 2 years, (which is at the most all she has left), for a zero return.

I will be at Coventry this weekend to say a farewell.
But will the fatcats be there for people to meet them?

Am I mistaken in thinking we were initially told she should have up to 15 years of flying after the restoration?

No, you are not the initial was that she would be aiming for a 10 year display life with the possibility of it being extended to 15 years if all the Mods etc were done and the permits were allowed.
Then there was the subject of the actual running costs which seemed to grow in the first year.

The 15 year was a big wish though.

The 2 years is as indicated on another thread due to the FI's.