558 Funding Update

[Dee]

Always 2 sides to every story.. Or is that the title of a song?

[RLN]

I'm appealing - does that count?

[Xplumberlives]

I'm appealing - does that count?

For what?

[RLN]

Give money to LPG instead. All I know is that I feel sorry for the engineers who work their wossnames off, only to be rewarded with uncertainty about there future. I know it's happening in a lot of places at the moment, but there seems to be a recurring theme.

[Hungry Haggis]

Well, now, this has certainly been a stimulating
little thread so far, hasn't it? The BEST thing
about it is that we ALL LOVE 558 and want to
see her doing her thing for as many more years
as is aerodynamically possible. Lots of important
issues have been raised here today, but so long
as we never forget what is MOST important, I
truly believe that everything will work out better
than just well.

Mind you, there isn't a single thing I can point at
that proves my belief. Not one thing. I just know
that something so important, well, it's just TOO
important for it NOT to happen. It WILL happen.

Besides, if it doesn't, Haggis will be Furious! There
will be HELL to pay, make no mistake!

And that's all I've got for now.

Dan4th

Haggis won't be furious Dan4th just more than slightly fed up Disappointed And speechless all in one .Fed up With the negativity of some including to some extent my own ( i admit mistakes ) I am also an Ex club member but not because of any issues with the club or I hope anyone else .
Disappointed in the way it looks that so far every year it turns into a free for all because funding is allowed to go through the floor and the shop floor workers hands on to 558 are every time almost held to ransom regarding redundancy .They should be working on funding for 2011 through the 2010 season same as they should have been 1 season ahead since before first flight .before anyone has a go I'm not getting involved in the previous simply because I see both sides of the argument .Where I also get disappointed is the total and I do mean total lack of media input particularly up here is Scotland .A whole population of tight fisted humans waiting to be fleeced asked. For the first flight and the following season I got 558 in the press and also spoke to TV stations but that failed .The so called press officer your esteemed club chairman was asked for advice and support but I was on my own it seemed .Also earlier this year I asked for his input etc to try to keep it going guess I never got contacted .At the point also where I knew I could not go on with the publicity I gave yes gave a couple of those that I believe to be on the committee the contact details for the newspaper office I got fully on 558s side over that time .I now find that no one has bothered keeping that in the loop so no press coverage.I personally can no longer keep going on 558s behalf So I wait to see what if any press coverage she gets in the frozen north wasteland .If any of you Jocks would like the contact details for that office just let me know by PM.
Speechless and drained I am now .continuing to care what happens to 558 ,most defiantly .lets go folks each and every one of us that gives a dam can keep trying somehow .Oh and PA28 when you read this my brain may be slightly damaged but my support for 558 is not .

[Sad Sam3]

Just thought you might like to know that the phones have been going bonkers at Hinkley today.

[Xplumberlives]

Just thought you might like to know that the phones have been going bonkers at Hinkley today.

Might be due to the latest mailshot that has just hit the streets!

[Dee]

£ 88 thousand raised now!! Looking good

[Exceptionalsleeper]

Just thought you might like to know that the phones have been going bonkers at Hinkley today.

Did you call BT to send out an engineer?

£ 88 thousand raised now!! Looking good

Robert & Andrew will be placing an order for a massive Turkey each on the back of that news!

[PiperArrow28]

Steve,

Sorry, I feel it is time to stop the play ground antics and to act as reponsible Adults... you seriously don't know most of what goes on, nor certain positions people are in right now.

What I do know, is that such unfounded comments in the public domain help kill off all the hard work, money and possibly potential sponsors, that some of us are trying VERY hard to attract.

For what? - for the shear pleasure of emotional responses that make a few individuals feel better, yet don't actually achieve anything.

It is time to see the BIGGER picture!

With that, I bid you farewell as I go off to Lincoln Market... are you making the journey per chance?
I'd love to have a chat with you face to face to tell you a few things that might just "open" your eyes!!

Ian.

[Gully]

Would you really, Air, completely reject the Club as
a worthy entity due to this one unfortunate statement
from one member outside of his official capacity?
Sounds mighty stern and inflexible to me!

Like I said, being VC of the club surely comes with certain responsibilities.
One of those being not bring the clubs name into disrepute.
People were very quick to name and shame him with being associated with the club.

Another point I've thought about is does the membership fee (£24?) for the club allow for gift aid?

If not then surely it's best to donate that money directly to the Vulcan and they can claim the gift aid back, than pay for club membership and allow HMGov take their slice of the pie thus the Vulcan gets less?

Another point of course is if the current appeal fails and the trust folds and the Vulcan is grounded, then there's absolutely no point having a club anyway.

Sorry, just can't let that last statement go unchallenged . The Club is there to support the aircraft - currently that is via support of the Vulcan to the Sky Trust. However, should the Trust go into administration, the Club would continue to exist and continue to do everything in it's power (and within it's finances) in the short and medium term to ensure that whatever organisation replaces the Trust has a chance of acquiring an airworthy and operable '558. The Club would then supprt '558 via that new operating organisation.

The Club existed before the current Trust and if you look at the constitution, it is very clear that the Club will continue to work to the advantage of '558 long after her flying career is over. (Probably be called The '558 Club again then! )

Gully

[Exceptionalsleeper]

Steve,

Sorry, I feel it is time to stop the play ground antics and to act as reponsible Adults... you seriously don't know most of what goes on, nor certain positions people are in right now.

What I do know, is that such unfounded comments in the public domain help kill off all the hard work, money and possibly potential sponsors, that some of us are trying VERY hard to attract.

For what? - for the shear pleasure of emotional responses that make a few individuals feel better, yet don't actually achieve anything.

It is time to see the BIGGER picture!

With that, I bid you farewell as I go off to Lincoln Market... are you making the journey per chance?
I'd love to have a chat with you face to face to tell you a few things that might just "open" your eyes!!

Ian.

Do you have a sense of humour Ian?

My last two comments will not damage nor contribute to the downfall of the VTTS, they are quite able in doing that on their own. Did you read my long comment a few pages back? There is nothing I haven't already witnessed that I need my eyes opening too! Besides, can you not remember sitting with Dad & I at Waddington where you were guilty, just as I have been of bashing the Trust over the Permit to Fly issue, surprisingly I bet you don't!

Just chill out chap!

[Air]

I agree entirely with SM and Dan4th here... it has no bearing on Vulcan business and for the life of me can't understand why it needs to be brought up again. Do you not think "we" have taken action over this and expressed that it "will not happen again!" ? That should be the end of the matter. FULL STOP!

I wasn't aware it had ever been mentioned before, and certainly not by me here or anywhere else. I'm pleased to hear action has been taken to avoid it happening again as it's only the club that will suffer long term.

To answer AIR with regard to the Gift Aid element, this is something we are looking into, but there are many complications to this and accounting procedures to put in place. Right now, we are still looking for a replacement Treasurer and hopefully, will have someone installed very soon. For the moment, rest assured that out of every £24 you spend on a membership, a large percentage of that is then turned into funding merchandise or other activities that double or triple your investment.

I'm not sure how that works, however at THIS POINT in time I still think that £24 is better going straight to the Vulcan with Gift Aid than into the club.

By all means stand on the sidelines if you wish - that is your choice, but at the same time, don't keep knocking all those who are working damn hard (12-15 hours a day not uncommon) to keep y(our) dreams alive, be they Club Members, Volunteers on the stalls, Engineers, Crew or upper Trust management.

I haven't knocked anyone bar the Vice Chairman. I've no idea where you got that idea from.

There are always two sides to every coin. For as much as some here seem to have a beef about certain people in the organisation, I can multiply many times over, the number of incidences when those very same people have saved the project from certain collapse or failure for a whole host of reasons.

Thanks, it's good to hear some positives from the other side of the coin. Just a shame you can't elaborate further.

We are where we are... grasp it while you can, or live to regret what could have been!

That's exactly how I feel, which is why I'm continuing supporting the Vulcan appeal. Things might not be as good as they could be, but I can't sit by and allow XH558 get grounded without at least feeling I helped try to keep it flying.

Thanks for your input.

Another point of course is if the current appeal fails and the trust folds and the Vulcan is grounded, then there's absolutely no point having a club anyway.

Sorry, just can't let that last statement go unchallenged . The Club is there to support the aircraft - currently that is via support of the Vulcan to the Sky Trust. However, should the Trust go into administration, the Club would continue to exist and continue to do everything in it's power (and within it's finances) in the short and medium term to ensure that whatever organisation replaces the Trust has a chance of acquiring an airworthy and operable '558. The Club would then supprt '558 via that new operating organisation.

The Club existed before the current Trust and if you look at the constitution, it is very clear that the Club will continue to work to the advantage of '558 long after her flying career is over. (Probably be called The '558 Club again then! )

Gully

Surely if the trust goes into administration, then 558 becomes an asset than could be sold regardless of what the club wants? I don't know what the clubs finances are like but are you really in a position to keep things ticking over until a new buyer is found?
What has become very clear here though is that the club/trust are two different entities each with their own finances, and each vying for a slice of the public's money. That's a very strange setup if you ask me.

However as I said above, at this point in time my money goes straight to the Vulcan with Gift Aid.
If things don't turn to sh1t in the next few months, maybe then I would look at club membership. BUT if the Vulcan is grounded, then (for me at least) there's no point in there being a club, and I'd be too depressed to join one anyway.

[Bovril]

if the club has a significant amount of cash then surely every spare penny should already be in the pot?

[Dan4th]

Air, I hereby give up on you. You seem determined
to not understand any of what's been told you by
people who are actually "in the know", some of them
closely involved in the day-to-day activities of both
the Trust and the Club. You have had authoritative
information and opinions from both sides of the
highly-touted "Coin". The vast majority of the cash
supporting 558 comes from the Club and Club Members.
If the Trust proves unable to successfully support
the Vulcan's activities, then it is the Club which is
best-suited to see that she keeps flying -- in other
words, to be her Last, Best Hope. I refer you to my
post concerning "Obstacles".

You need not feel obligated to reply to this post.

Dan4th

[Saracenman]

Air, with regard to your comment about PA28 stating that the Club can treble each and every £1...

I'm not sure how that works, however at THIS POINT in time I still think that £24 is better going straight to the Vulcan with Gift Aid than into the club.

one simple example would be the children's book "Vulcan Ventures". the Club are the publisher, and it is they who funded the printing of the initial run of 4,000 copies. when each of those sell, the Club will PROFIT in excess of £16,000

each future volume will generate similar profits, not to mention any Vulcan Ventures merchandise

there is no way on this earth that both the author and illustrator, merely as two Club members, would be able to DONATE a quantity like that, be it in membership fees or otherwise!

obviously the print run of 4,000 books cost nowhere near £16,000 to produce - it is that which PA28 refers to when he says that the Club INVESTS every penny!

your money IS better off going to the Club, as they are the ONLY part of this whole Vulcan business which is capable of running at a profit! and a profit which is FAR in excess of the 28% that GiftAid is worth

300+% vs. 28%

sm

[Old Rigger]

Firstly I see the ruddy N word has appeared again secondly if I get the pictures in these are the people I do what I can for and the engineers, aircrew, finally I have my own opinions, I will voice them politely and if it does not fit in with a particular view of what is going on then please do not make me or for that matter some of the others out to be the enemy for voicing those opinions, we are still helping.

[Code monkey]

ES, PA, HH, Air and all fellow posters!

Having read this thread with interest, disbelief, agreement, dismay and various emotions in-between, one thing that does seem to shine through for me is that we do all actually share one common bond - a love of this dammed old heap of junk areoplane! If you didn't care about it you won't be posting about it!

We may disagree on what is the best way to keep it flying but I hope we can all agree that that is want we all want to see? Perhaps it is time to "agree to disagree" but still respect the right of each and every poster to hold their own opinion and to accept that each of us will support 558 in our own chosen way.

Thanks for reading,

Dave.

[MadNaddy]

ES, PA, HH, Air and all fellow posters!

Having read this thread with interest, disbelief, agreement, dismay and various emotions in-between, one thing that does seem to shine through for me is that we do all actually share one common bond - a love of this dammed old heap of junk areoplane! If you didn't care about it you won't be posting about it!

We may disagree on what is the best way to keep it flying but I hope we can all agree that that is want we all want to see? Perhaps it is time to "agree to disagree" but still respect the right of each and every poster to hold their own opinion and to accept that each of us will support 558 in our own chosen way.

Thanks for reading,

Dave.

The fact that you've got this response from this fella means a heck of a lot!!!!

I agree with you Dave on this, and everyone else who has said it.... Agree to disagree.

[Saracenman]

that's what freedom of speech is all about

sm

[Hungry Haggis]

ES, PA, HH, Air and all fellow posters!

Having read this thread with interest, disbelief, agreement, dismay and various emotions in-between, one thing that does seem to shine through for me is that we do all actually share one common bond - a love of this dammed old heap of junk areoplane! If you didn't care about it you won't be posting about it!

We may disagree on what is the best way to keep it flying but I hope we can all agree that that is want we all want to see? Perhaps it is time to "agree to disagree" but still respect the right of each and every poster to hold their own opinion and to accept that each of us will support 558 in our own chosen way.

Thanks for reading,

Dave.

code monkey Why on earth do you think we are all here Most are club members I'm Ex club but and i do mean but We (and I am going to asum I speak for all on Iconic ) are all behind 558 in our own ways Some recently have a bone to pick for whatever reason I don't but as you should have guessed by now this is a forum where free speach is just that free and take it on the chin when someone jumps on you .If anyone steps out of line far enough I bet they get stamped on by SM and his henchmen & women.This so far in the time Iconic has been in existance ( & I will be corected if wrong )is the only thread that has got as heated as this .I also think I speak for all when I say 558s very future is kind of important to everyone as is the ongoing employment of the guys & Gals that put her in the sky for everyone to see .some of us (me) can't do a hell of a lot but others can & have Like SM,Mags PA28,Exeptionalsleeper even did his bit the list goes on.I think our main aim is to help keep that Vulcan flying as was the original idea to encourage young poeple to enter engineering as a trade and as a memorial to the days of the cold war when the Vulcan Victor and Yes the B52 had the capability of turning vast swathes of this here earth into glass .
Everyone disagrees most of the time about something .But this normally is a relaxing forum ,unlike when I was in the club the other side was and I believe still is a bit rough.

Take care have fun and find a convient rock to hide under on occasion .
Now ~i will reel my neck in before it gets shot at

Edit dam SM that was short and sweet

[MrTim]

I think what CM was saying was that pretty much everyone's had their say and aired their opinions now (several times over), so it's about time we all gave it a rest, stopped bickering and blathering on and on about it, NOT that people couldn't have their say.

[Air]

ES, PA, HH, Air and all fellow posters!

Having read this thread with interest, disbelief, agreement, dismay and various emotions in-between, one thing that does seem to shine through for me is that we do all actually share one common bond - a love of this dammed old heap of junk areoplane! If you didn't care about it you won't be posting about it!

We may disagree on what is the best way to keep it flying but I hope we can all agree that that is want we all want to see? Perhaps it is time to "agree to disagree" but still respect the right of each and every poster to hold their own opinion and to accept that each of us will support 558 in our own chosen way.

Thanks for reading,

Dave.

Agreed. As someone who hasn't had the opportunity to be at the sharp end of all things vtts, it's very interesting to be able to get some answers to my questions and I thank everyone for their responses.

As usual it seems things aren't always as straightforward as some think, but the bottom line is that I hope I get to see 558 flying again in 2010.

[Saracenman]

SM and his henchmen & women

[Gully]

if the club has a significant amount of cash then surely every spare penny should already be in the pot?

The Club hasn't (as far as I know!), which is why I qualified my comment by saying "within it's finances"! However, whatever happens in respect of the Trust, the Club will continue to fundraise - which was my point: the Club's focus is the aircraft.

Air makes a valid point - in the event of a Trust administration all control over the aircraft would be vested in the administrator. Nobody knows what would happen in that instance, but the Club will do whatever it can to help ensure '558 remains in this country and has the opportunity to fly again, which (I believe) is what we all want.

Gully