Shackleton WR963

[Dan4th]

Is it my imagination, or........



Is 963's smile just a little bigger than before???????

Looks That Way to ME!

This is all Great Stuff

Danf.

[Kermit]

Popped into Airbase yesterday despite the rain, and was amazed to find the Growler open to all yet unattended, as were all the other aircraft. Is that the norm ?? Doesnt she look great, well done all !
Retreated to the Midlands Air Museum for hot chocolate and to see their newly arrived Convair, its getting really tight out there ! Couldnt help noticing how good their Vulcan looks now, repaint etc, well done MAM, and a guide materialised within minutes too....
Shame about the weather though !!

[MOD]

PHOTOS ???

ibw

[Jigsaw]

PHOTOS ???

ibw

What Ian said

[Richw_82]

Popped into Airbase yesterday despite the rain, and was amazed to find the Growler open to all yet unattended, as were all the other aircraft. Is that the norm ?? Doesnt she look great, well done all !

Its more or less the norm. With Airbase closing soon the few staff left are struggling somewhat. We've been working on a trust system - so long as the aircraft is respected the door stays open and people are free to wander about. There are a few of our guys popping in and out most days, and the Classic Flight GST also keep an eye on things so despite appearances- WR963, the Nimrod and the British Eagle DC6 are being watched carefully.

Today saw WR963 run for the Shackleton Association. Only on three again due to running out of time to get No 2 engine running. A couple of weeks work should see it growling.

Regards

Rich

[Kermit]

Surprised by the lack of news, lots of people took pics of XH558 flying by the Shack during its engine run, but nothing posted here ??
And talking of news, what is happening now with Airbase etc ??

[Richw_82]

Hi,

The penultimate day of Airbase was a cracker, and being in WR963 with Griffons growling as XH558 flew over was pretty awesome. We even had anbother of WR963's old pilots come say hello and take up his old seat during the run.

But then the doors closed on the 30th, and everything changes again.

Its taking a little time for the dust to settle at what was Airbase now that the doors are closed. Last week was an eye opener and a real glimpse of how serious this move is.. the hangar curtains are down and everything is being inventoried, tidied and prepared to move. And we're right in the middle.

So far we've not got any repsonse from the airport over whether we can stay, but I understand they are aware of our plight. They have their own problems with the finalising of the plans for redevelopment so one old cold war bomber doesn't rank highly on their to-do list.

We've had to look at re-housing the archive - this is the archive for Type 696 and 716 Avro Shackleton aircraft (which includes all the original manufacturers drawings for MR1, MR2, MR3, T4 and AEW2; blueprint copies, the mod lists for all variants and various other bits of Shackleton paperwork) needs moving from their hangar storage.

Thankfully it appears the Avro Heritage Trust at Woodford are interested in giving them a home, and to be honest I can't really think of a better place for them.

This leaves us with our on site store to shift; the off site store to shift (spare Griffons, tailfins, wheels, control surfaces and god knows what else) and finalise parking at Coventry for WR963 somehow.

The updates will continue; but its going to be another week or so to get ourselves regrouped and back into it full throttle,

Regards,

Rich

[Xplumberlives]

Good luck Rich and Team!

[TimS]

If you need any manpower to lug things around, I'm sure there are lots of us who'd gladly lend a hand.
Good luck!
Tim.

[Richw_82]

With the drawings, they're boxed (but big fireproof boxes) so it will be a forklift job and relatively painless. As for the stores we may need a hand. I'll keep everybody posted.

[Hazzer111]

Best of luck rich, is there still a chance of her been taxied this year?

[Richw_82]

We're hoping so! I wasn't on site yesterday but the update I got from the team by phone was to the effect that they were working on No 2 engine.

[Richw_82]

Work continues on WR963; we're catching up on all the little tasks that need attention while we have (another) tool made to finish up our work on No 2 engine. Nearly there though...

We have some radio work going on to try and get another V/UHF set working so we can operate a little easier; but once again we've run up against the parts robbing that was carried out to support WL790. There's also some end of season care going into the interior with some more of the leatherwork on the chairs being sent away for repair to damaged sections. We've also scheduled a wash and brush up for WR963 for a couple of weeks time, as she's starting to look like she's spent a bit of time on 'ops'. I have been warned that I'm not allowed to get her too clean though as it will spoil her??

More cockpit windows have been going in, and we may take advantage of a couple of drawings that I stumbled upon today... like the one for the front gunners/observers glazing; which if its any use may allow us to have new ones made to replace the milky looking old one.

Speaking of which, we've also got some fundraising plans in the pipeline, so you should be seeing lots of us around the shows next year; though with VP293 more than WR963! The 'begging bowl' is going to be put out; though not to quite the extent that some aircraft from the same stable use it. We might even have some stuff with us that Shackleton fans will want to buy.

To keep you entertained for the moment though; please try the following facebook link and see if it works, and if so - whether you like it.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=456549247725170

(As always, please be aware that I can't be responsible for other links from in facebook... you take your own chances. There's some really weird stuff out there and we can't control it all. Despite trying.)


Kind regards,

Rich

[Dan4th]

What a nice vid that is on Facebook!

Danf.

[Richw_82]

Hi chaps.. don't think because we've gone quiet we've gone away! Nothing could be further from the truth.

Various things are in the pipeline which are taking up a little more of our efforts, as a result time working on WR963 has been brief this past few weeks and limited to a little bit of winter preparation. We're also getting things together ready for attending the IPMS Scale Modelworld at Telford with the nose of VP293 this coming weekend.

Anyway- besides that I have something I'd like to discuss, and I'd be grateful if I can get some feedback from you all on it.


In 2013 it is 22 years since Avro Shackleton WR963 last flew. In 2014 it is 20 years since a Shackleton last flew in the UK, and 8 years since one flew anywhere in the world. There has been several attempts to get a Shackleton to fly in the past; with each attempt chipping away at the known issues and red tape and getting that one step closer, but never to the desired end result.

With the Airbase (formerly Classic Flight) museum moving away from Coventry you have to question the reason for WR963 remaining. Also, is there a point to continuing to run WR963, rather than looking at getting her tucked up nice and warm indoors at a national museum? Without being part of something bigger it sometimes feels to me like we're just trying to prolong the inevitable by keeping the engines running at great cost. As public access is severely limited now, there's little enjoyment to come if no-one can see what we're doing with a largely static aircraft in the middle of a lonely airport.

I feel there are two options open in the near future.

One will be to seek a permanent retirement home for WR963, as support at Coventry Airport will become harder to find for efforts as they are. The second is to take the step that everyone seems to keep avoiding, and look at geting a Shackleton in the air again.

I'm going to seek a meeting with the Trustees with regard to both options as time is ticking on - but I would welcome thoughts. Do you think it can be done? If not why not? What would be your concerns? Do you think it time for WR963 to bow out gracefully?


Bear in mind these are NOT the official views of the SPT, just the thoughts of one person within it.

Kind regards,

Rich

[Dan4th]

Wow, Rich........

That's a lot to chew on!

I will be back with some questions,
probably, and your answers will be
what determine the BIG answer

Danf.

EDIT::::::::::::::::::::::

No questions yet, but instead:::::::::::

Call up Smiler at VTS and get him over to see
963 and let him see and know the whole story....

If there's ANYONE who can give you good answers
it would be him....

He also has good contacts with CAA and others
that would be invaluable to you and the aircraft...

If you don't know it, his name is Kevin Stone....

Danf.

[Dougs]

I think airborne is the way to go if you can put all the ducks in a row (funding, CAA approvals, people etc) only need to see how the other 4 engine big birds are received to see it would be popular, duxford is awash with fantastic large planes and is awesome. It would be such a shame to let her languish in a museum there are already plenty of static planes not enough potential flight worthy examples just my opinion

[Gaz]

I guess it will come down to money.

Approach the HLA, it worked for the vulcan

[MOD]

Rich it will boil down to a fairly simple equation. Public support, both financially and logistically (I am sure this side of the equation could be accomplished) versus OEM/design authority and CAA support.

I can't see that the CAA would class this as a 'Complex' project but OEM and 'Approved' engineering support would be vital. Who would be the Project Management team for this venture? Do you have Charitable Trust status?

How about sounding out Dave Walton at Bruntingthorpe re hangarage and relocation if needs be?

I would suggest designing a website with a Supporters Club forum and start fundraising asap. (vide VTTS Club).

Just thinking aloud but I am sure a few people on here will give it some more thought, as indeed I will as well.

I would certainly support your efforts to get 963 flying again.

Ian

[Richw_82]

Thinking aloud helps - its appreciated. Bear in mind though, it won't come to pass if the Trustees won't change their view from 2008's decision to shelve the plan.

I have answers for some of the things mentioned, but they have thrown up new questions as a result. (eg - design authority. We hold the design rights, but CAA won't consider us design authority.) CAA contact in the past suggests the Shackleton comes in in the intermediate category.

In terms of fundraising, we've had to rejig that anyway as we won't have the income from visitors next year that we've enjoyed for a little while. A new website and assocated online presence is in the pipeline. We already have charitable status and have had for a while.

As I say... I am going to the Trustees with this as I feel we realistically don't have much more time to do this before the knowledge about the aircraft disappears. The alternative being of course to honour the 'Preservation' part of our groups title, which isn't about turning AVGAS into noise however satisfying it is.

Dan - in course of research I'll be pestering all the big aircraft operators. B17, Lanc, Vulcan, and even some of the DC6 guys at Coventry.


Regards,

Rich

[Dan4th]

You and your entire organization are the
only ones who can fill-in the blanks on this.....

To what degree is TIME your enemy, here???

I say, where there is a Will there is a Way,
but that's easy for me because I don't have
to jump through all the hoops or raise any
funds.....

I think we ALL on here want to see her FLY

You, on the other hand, might expend all
manner of effort and not see that happen

Anyhow, get the best advice you can, get
all of your ducks lined-up, and see what
happens!

I personally think the ADVICE part is critical!

Danf.

[MOD]

Rich have you a 'Ball park' figure for '963 to the sky'?

If not then that must be a priority. If you want HLF money you will also have to promote the 'Historic/educational' aspect of 963. I think that the fact that the Shack came between the Lancaster and the Vulcan might push a few buttons with the CAA. ie there is a preserved (flying) Lancaster and - at least until the end of 2013 - a preserved (flying) Vulcan but what about the 'Missing Link'? The AVRO Shackleton?

ibw

[Hazzer111]

If it is decided to fly '963 how long would it take for this to happen, also couldn't the CAA alow a one of flight to be made to wherever?

Personally I would love to see her fly it would be fantastic. Imagine that wr963 pa474 and nx611 all flying together

[Richw_82]

Ian,

Whenever I've asked the question, I've always been told £3 - 5 million to get the work done. I'm trying to work out a more accurate figure, but that some way off.

I'm not sure HLF funding would be forthcoming - as the Vulcan was very much a one off. Never hurts to ask though. Red Bull was approached a few years back, but I don't think it was ever followed up and I believe they may have changed their policies since.

Hazzer

The feasibility report commissioned in 2006 reckoned it could be achieved in 5 years. The CAA won't allow any flight in her current state, ferry flight or otherwise.

Rich

[Ipso]

Hi Rich.

What is the position on spares? How many years do you see her flying and the annual cost?
Insurance and maintenance etc.