Football!

[Aceyone]

Well,that's one view-point,another is that these over-paid prima donnas, once a week,sometimes twice, give a great deal of pleasure to a great many people of all ages and gender,sure they get paid lots but no more than many film-stars/celebrities and overpaid directors of numerous companies so there !

[Spitfire]

once a week,sometimes twice, give a great deal of pleasure to a great many people of all ages and gender,

Oooo poor dears - I wish I only had to do my job once a week - and sometimes twice

And you are saying that penalty shoot out was PLEASURE

sure they get paid lots but no more than many film-stars/celebrities and overpaid directors of numerous companies so there !

Are you kidding me ... seriously .... a premier league nancy boy (with his gloves on cos it's cold - poor lamb) probably gets about £25000/£30000 a WEEK on average .... that's an average £1.3/£1.5 million a year ... and some I bet A LOT more (Shrek gets over £6m ) For once - maybe twice a week ... and the best bit for them is ... they play badly they still get paid and the MANAGER get's fired ... name me another job where that happens ...

Top wage bills last year ....
1 MANCHESTER CITY £202m
2 CHELSEA £173m
3 MANCHESTER UNITED £162m
4 ARSENAL £143m

It's obscene I tell you ....

And what is it with the white line around a football pitch ... when you cross it you can't swallow anymore and you have to spit ... yet when you come off you can swallow again ... I bet the pitch is one greasy mess of ...... well you know ....

And I don't defend so called 'celebrities' either - they're just as bad ... but at least they work more than 180 minutes a week - and they don't spit

PS I've just worked out I shall earn less than £1m in my ENTIRE working life ... and I bet I will have given pleasure to a great many people too

[Sooty655]

As I have said before, I know nothing about football, I support Sheffield Wednesday.

[Dee]

In total agreement with all you said Spitfire!!

[Aceyone]

"And you are saying that penalty shoot out was PLEASURE "

it certainly was to the good people of Sunderland

A football club is only as good as the people on the pitch,if the players don't perform the club drops down the league table ,fans don't turn up,revenue goes down as do profits,unfortunately football,like most sports these days, is a business and the players are assets,the high wages are seen by clubs as an investment !
I do agree that players these days are wimpish compared to days of yore and I get miffed at their antics ( diving and especially spitting )
Another thing not ALL footballers are on such high wages ,many are on far less and also have a short working life then have to re train to find alternative employment !

I feel we have to agree to disagree on this one


Dee,are we feeling a tad disillusioned just now ?

[Spitfire]

Another thing not ALL footballers are on such high wages ,many are on far less and also have a short working life then have to re train to find alternative employment !

My heart bleeds for them - poor dears - I mean £1000 a week at minimum, as a salary, even if they lose, plus sponsorship deals and free cars - 5 star hotels - then - horror of horrors - having to retrain and actually work for a living - oh the deprivation

I feel we have to agree to disagree on this one

You may be right - I'll agree to disagree with you

[Aceyone]

This is why this Forum is so much better than a certain other I could mention ,at least here, we can have intelligent discussions without resorting to petty name calling and sarcastic remarks even if you are wrong

[Spitfire]

Nah .... I may have a few faults ... but being wrong isn't one of them

[Sooty655]

Spitters can be as right or as wrong as he likes, but I am quite pleased with yesterday's result, an away win in the cup.

And Ace's boys managed to do the same thing.

[Aceyone]

Spitters can be as right or as wrong as he likes, but I am quite pleased with yesterday's result, an away win in the cup.

And Ace's boys managed to do the same thing.

Was a good day ,wasn't it ?

[Spitfire]

You mean some of the over paid nancy boys managed - once - to actually DO what they get paid for ... where you and I do that EVERY day for a lot less money

You also intimate that if they manage to do this enough times they get some sort of garish metal cup with nancy boy coloured ribbons on the handles - that they can then parade around the big field and show to all the people who have paid extortionate amounts of money that pay their nancy boy wages - then they stick it in a glass cabinet to look at.

MMmmmm ... very strange

Tell me ... a thought ....as in the Theseus ship paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus(now forever known as the Trigger's broom paradox ) if your Grandad 'supported' a given team of men, who were not nancy boys at that time, called, say, Manchester Hotspurs and they were paid not much - and then your Dad get's born and he gets to 'support' the Manchester Hotspurs, who were paid more - then you get born and you get to 'support' the Manchester Hotspurs and they are overpaid nancy boys .... is that the same 'team' your Grandad supported???

Al the nancy boys are different - the chief manager badly spoken ex nancy boy in charge is different - the blokes who look after the nancy boys every whim are all different - is that still the same 'TEAM' .... how can that be????

Do you actually support the NAME ' Manchester Hotspurs' no matter who is in charge and who plays ???

The question - 'Who do you support?' has always made me think this

By the way - this is a genuine question of interest - not a wind up ... I would really like to know your views on this paradox

[Aceyone]

Well that's an interesting question,I'll try and answer it from my own viewpoint !
Living in SELondon when I was a kid there were a number of teams that I could have supported/followed,the then First division giants Arsenal/Tottenham etc or one of the smaller clubs Millwall/Charlton etc ! As it was I first went to a match at Charlton ( v Blackburn , I think ) and although I had seen football on tv ,was unprepared for the intense atmosphere generated by the home and away teams supporters ,it's something you have to experience for real to fully understand ,the almost visceral emotions that ebbed and flowed during the game,maybe it's some kind of primordial sense of being part of a larger sentient being,herd instinct if you like !
For most fans, who generally support their local teams ,it's loyalty ,not perhaps to the current players/staff but more because the team ,in a direct rather than oblique ,way, are representing your area and therefore
indirectly you ,their hopes and dreams are your hopes and dreams,their lows are yours ,their ups are your ups ,regardless of how much loyalty most players have for the teams they represent ( not much nowadays ) you are always loyal,it's your team,your ground ,like a parent towards a recalcitrant child ,the team frustrates,pleases,disappoints,enrages and drives you up the wall but you stay faithful to the cause,as in any walk of life there are favourite things that you cherish and hold on to,keepsakes/mementos ,your 1974 Playboy collection etc and you hold on to these things, often as a prop and your team is a prop,it works,it works for thousands of people around the world ,at National and International levels ,whether it's Football/Cricket/Motorsport or whatever floats your boat,I suppose you could liken it to Nationalism ,you may not like the ruling party of your country or the way it's run but you still love your country,it's yours and although we may not understand how a citizen could feel patriotic about ,say ,Bulgaria ,the fact is that they love their country and will die for it ( most ) in the same way managers and players will come and go but the club will remain and the supporters remain and grow old with the club they first enjoyed watching as a young sprog.
I can't and won't even begin to persuade anyone to like football,sure it's not perfect,there are problems,the players are generally overpaid,the Chairmen are sacking-happy berks and the Managers are cliché-speaking twits who more or less see exactly what they want to see and nothing else but it works for a bluidy lot of people !

[Spitfire]

Good answer - well explained from your point of view - I get that ..

I only ever went to one big football match back in the 70s ... with friends to the Chelsea ground .. I'd have been about 25 - it was standing terraces then and all that 'intense atmosphere' and 'visceral emotion' frightened the crap out of me and I couldn't wait to get out of it. Before that I'd only ever been to third division Shrewsbury Town at the Gay Meadow ... because my Dad was a cop on duty there (4 cops - one behind each goal and one on either end of the half way line) ...hardly inspiring

I was also moved around a lot with my Dad's career as a youngster so was never anywhere long enough to get embedded in the emotions you describe. I've lived in 14 houses in 8 different towns in my life - never longer than a few years in each

I see what you are saying though - but probably why I don't feel the need for it ...

[Aceyone]

I suppose it also depends greatly on whether or not you played football, as I did from the age of about 5 ,in the playground, through to Sunday League on such celebrated places as Clapham Common and Hackney Wick !
mind I was never much cop


Sooty ,I would have put money on that draw for our teams,had to happen !

[Spitfire]

There's something else then ... whilst some kids were getting sweaty kicking balls about in the playground I was the swot in the corner building model planes staying dry and warm

[Aceyone]

There's something else then ... whilst some kids were getting sweaty kicking balls about in the playground I was the swot in the corner building model planes staying dry and warm

Not fair,I used to build model planes and then made my own gunpowder and blew them up

[Jigsaw]

Thoroughly enjoyed that little debate guys

Mine is quite boring. My family are from Manchester and have been City supporters since the beginning (My Great Grandfather chose to go to Wembley to watch City rather than give someone away at a wedding ). My father took me to Maine Rd for the first time when I was about 4 or 5 and that's that.
Like the way it works or not, I have always supported the same team and as a lot of you know, it has not been an easy ride

There have been some very valid points made in this thread. Cheers

[Aceyone]

Thoroughly enjoyed that little debate guys

Mine is quite boring. My family are from Manchester and have been City supporters since the beginning (My Great Grandfather chose to go to Wembley to watch City rather than give someone away at a wedding ). My father took me to Maine Rd for the first time when I was about 4 or 5 and that's that.
Like the way it works or not, I have always supported the same team and as a lot of you know, it has not been an easy ride

There have been some very valid points made in this thread. Cheers

Always had a soft spot for City,not just because of their more celebrated neighbours but cos many years ago I watched them beat Crystal Palace Joe Corrigan was in goal I believe !

[Sooty655]

Sooty ,I would have put money on that draw for our teams,had to happen !

Indeed. Perhaps we should have it redefined as the final of the Iconic Aircraft Cup.

I was tempted to be sarcastic and say it's a shame Charlton won't be going any further, but frankly I don't think there will be much in it, and either team could actually be better off by losing and concentrating on surviving in the league.

A replay followed by a penalty shootout could be on the cards.

[Aceyone]

Sooty ,I would have put money on that draw for our teams,had to happen !

Indeed. Perhaps we should have it redefined as the final of the Iconic Aircraft Cup.

I was tempted to be sarcastic and say it's a shame Charlton won't be going any further, but frankly I don't think there will be much in it, and either team could actually be better off by losing and concentrating on surviving in the league.

A replay followed by a penalty shootout could be on the cards.

Well Charlton are usually hopeless in the cup competitions so my money is going on Sheffield ,whatever the result I can't lose !

[Dee]

Well ive supported United now for 50 years so doubt i can change now. My 'affliction' was started by my older brother. He used to listen to the matches on his small radio on a saturday afternoon at exactly 3pm(unlike now when you never know when the next game might be"!) If they lost the radio would be slammed down in disgust. Then we won the European cup and we would listen to the commentary over and over again on a LP record!! Before all this modern gizmo stuff as you can see !
So i started going to most home games, travelling from Mansfield on the local supporters bus. Great times until the Glazers took over, since then cant get tickets , cant afford tickets and back problems prevent me from actually watching live. Although how we have dropped from grace that isnt such a bad thing( can get real mardy when we lose which is quite often theses days

[Spitfire]

So there's a very good example of the Trigger's Broom Paradox ...

The 'team' Dee supported 50 years ago in about 1964 was made up of 11 good men and true ....



Some very famous names there .....Bobby Charlton - Dennis Law - Georgie Best ... earning about £300 per week

Then you have another 'team' ... now ... 11 over paid pampered neanderthals (Shrek earning £300,000 a week!) who can't even be bothered to sit or stand straight



You couldn't get a more divergent group of individuals and yet they are - in name - the same 'team'

So - over 50 years - Dee's support has crossed many differing groups of 11 between those 2 extremes yet the 'team' still carries on as if its just one

Strange isn't it

Personally I could see me lending some good solid support to the wholesome talented and fine looking chaps in the first picture ... but I wouldn't lend the second lot a broken stick as support

[Aceyone]

That's a great post Spits old chap

[Sooty655]

Some very famous names there .....Bobby Charlton - Dennis Law - Georgie Best ... earning about £300 per week

Yeah, only £300 (plus perks and bungs). My father died around that time, and only once in his entire working life did he take home more than £10 for a week's work, and that took a lot of overtime.

And in your list of good 60s rôle models you are including George Best ???????????????????????

Should have gone to SpecSavers, Spitters. Your rose tint is much too strong.

[Spitfire]

Some very famous names there .....Bobby Charlton - Dennis Law - Georgie Best ... earning about £300 per week

Yeah, only £300 (plus perks and bungs). My father died around that time, and only once in his entire working life did he take home more than £10 for a week's work, and that took a lot of overtime.

And in your list of good 60s rôle models you are including George Best ???????????????????????

Should have gone to SpecSavers, Spitters. Your rose tint is much too strong.

If you check back there is no mention of 'role models'

I was merely commenting on the footballing talent on show in the first picture and the meagre income... Their smiles - demeanour and sheer presence in that photo speaks volumes for their era against the neanderthals and nancy boys glaring and scowling in the second picture.

As a footballer GB was astonishing ... as a man he was a waste of space and I personally would have cut out and retrieved his last liver transplant and given it to someone more deserving... Off the pitch he was an idiot and and a poor excuse for a human - especially in his later life.