RIAT in decline.

[Fifties Fanatic]

I'm quite lucky with cost because my company have a very active Sports and Social Club of which I am on the board of directors, and every year we buy tickets to RIAT.

Standard policy for tickets is the employee pays 30% of the standard cost (up to £100) and the S+S club pick up the remaining 70%, so they can ramp the price up to £99 and I'd still go for just £30!!

Any vacancies coming up?

[Flybywyre7875]

A few things I noticed this year:

1 - A distinct lack of Static aircraft at the show. It seems long gone are the days where armed police stand around and guard the static Stealth fighter or when you need a day to watch flying and a day to do static and stalls.
2 - Perfume stalls - Why???
3 - No static F22 which was a disappointment
4 - A mobile amusements/arcade set-up??
5 - Noisy fairground disruptive of the sound system at times at the west end of the airfield
6 - A meerkat stall??? really?? Meerkats?????
7 - No Scanner/Radio sellers. Was hoping to seek advice on mine, friend was also hoping to buy.
8 - Just a lot of old Tat for sale as opposed to real interesting clothing/books/dvd's/badges etc

I'll still go and still continue to support our guys and girls, purely because I am happy to sit and watch flying aircraft for 8-9 hours, but I would spend more money there and probably buy tickets for both days if they put on enough to make it worthwhile doing so.

All the things you have listed are pretty much what does my head in about modern day Airshows.

If I want smellies, i'll go to the shops.If I want to rub shoulders with hood rats and candy floss, i'll go to the fair.If I want to see dancing Meerkats I'll go on the p**s with my mates.

This stuff is all a result of revenue generating and if thats the game they want to play I will spend my £37 on something else.

Airshows are for those who are passionate about Aircraft and flying and I know thier are plenty of us about to make some money out of it so whoever the chairpeople are FIND YOURSELVES ANOTHER PROJECT TO RUIN!

That felt too good.......

[10680]

I hadn't been to RIAT for a few years.

With regard to the ticket price, as children go free (OK for families) the adult price is bound to be higher to cover.

Also is all that security really necessary? Did it really achieve anything?

I must admit this year I didn't really look at the static aircraft, but it would have been good to see some of them flying.

As said in previous posts the content isn't necessarily the organisers fault, but those with long memories - the first appearances of a Bear, The Russian Test Pilots, (before they crashed - where are my photos?), B1, U2, MIGs, Sukhois, historic stuff not just modern.... why no F4 flying

Maybe going back to a bi-ennial show would improve content, but not get as much money in!

[Flybywyre7875]

I agree about the Phantom, they could of added the Polish Su-22 fitter to the mix as well. These Aircraft would have generated a bit of a stir had they been airborne.

Whoever is calling the shots seems to know little about what the punters actually want or are lacking imagination beyond description.

Either way I still have the taste of perfume in my mouth and it tastes sour

[Mayfly]

The security is a joke & is only there IMHO so they are 'seen' to be doing something - last year they weren't checking children as it 'contravened' their rights - so the easy thing to do would be to place anything suspicious in the childs clothing.....The line I was in they were letting about every 10th person through with no checks.

There are a few Countries off the radar at the moment & not participating in the airshow scene & it's getting harder to fill the slots. As for the F22 not being on static doesn't surprise me in the least the US are paranoid about their technology.

Just because an aircraft is on static doesn't mean the crew are a qualified display crew. Very often they are not.

[Flybywyre7875]

I did not know about the regulations concerning aircrew qualified for flying at dispays, i'm a bit out of touch.

I have not made my mind up yet about going next year, i may watch the display from outside instead.

Can anyone recommend alternative shows both here and abroad that are worth a peep?

[Thumper]

I doubt if I will go to RIAT again, the only exception is if something VERY special that I wouldn't see in the UK appears like an SU-27 or the Blue Angels.

I don't have a problem with the price of RIAT, I think it is justified for 8 hours of flying when you consider that Legends is only £8 less for 4 hours of flying.

The problem I have with RIAT is paying that price to get the living daylights beaten out of me by complete w@nkers who think they have a right to stand on top of you because they are special (or usually they have a big lens). RIAT does not have a friendly atmosphere, from the moment you walk in you are interrogated by GI Joe, surrounded by programme sellers, swamped by people handing out leaflets for Adopt a Panda and The new Toyota Prius and within 5 minutes you will usually have found a lost child screaming it's head off.

I shall now list what irked me at RIAT 2009, my only ever visit to RIAT;

1) GI Joe interrogating me for 30 minutes over a camping knife which was pointless as they let me in WITH it
2) The Vicky Pollard family behind me swearing at me for holding them up
3) The LARGE amount of families there with out of control kids, they are NOT there for the flying they are there because it's FREE for the kids and they have a fun fair and other such entertainment
4) The 3 mile walk to the toilets and then the 30 minute queue wait... bring your own bog roll too
5) The overpriced grandstands and enclosures and the fact that the Pimms enclosure wouldn't let me in as I wasn't suitably dressed... I don't have an option when I ride a bloody motorcycle!!!
6) The rudeness and downright aggression of people. Jumping infront of me when I am obviously taking a picture of a static plane and then snarling at me if I say "excuse me, I was taking a picture" and then being barged and actually pushed to the ground when at the front of the crowdline for the Fly Navy 100
7) The tents, windbreaks, string of 400 camping chairs tied to the fence, most of which are unoccupied
8) Some displays (usually the ones I like) are 5 minutes whilst others (Wingwalkers) are 4 hours... OK not 4 hours but they seem that long
9) The ABBA tribute band that was playing ALL day NON STOP in the region of 200dbs
10) £4.80 for a hot dog, £2.50 for a coffee
11) 10 miles of stalls ranging from secondhand clothing (not aviation related) to kids toys, sweet shops, framed paintings of Elephants and bird houses..... BIRD HOUSES!?! It took me about an hour to find a model stand amongst the junk
12) Did I already mention the large amount of unruly, noisy and downright obnoxious children that are there clearly not enjoying themselves?

Sorry but I actually found RIAT stressful and disappointing and felt it was a complete waste of time and money. I had no good photo's or video due to the sheer volume of people and the fact the grandstands were full within minutes. I would rather spend the money to go to an airshow with a friendly and relaxed atmosphere with relevant trade stands, good facilties and isn't swamped with thousands of people and children, I can safely say thats every airshow I have been to except RIAT.

Flybywyre... I recommend Shoreham Airshow, Leuchars and anything thats on at Duxford, you will not be disappointed BUT don't except 8 hours of fast jets as only RIAT can supply that.

[Fifties Fanatic]

That's a helluva critique of RIAT. And it doesn't surprise me. It was not like that in its early days but I suppose it has grown too big and too commercial and perhaps is in danger of imploding. I have not been for a few years and have no desire to. Reading your account pretty much confirms my worst suspicions so I'll make do with Duxford, Biggin and occasionally Old Warden.

[Thumper]

I have been to a couple of other shows where things have been disappointing, like American Air Day last year, but it was nowhere near enough for me to stop going or to write an epic biography over what I didn't like Maybe I just had a very bad experience at my first RIAT, the weather certainly wouldn't have helped peoples demenour that day but when you put it all together you can see that they are things which won't really change.

I have been to Farnborough twice and thats a BIG airshow, almost on a par with RIAT for the volume of people but it was such a relaxed atmosphere, no rushing around, no argy bargy and people were friendly and thoughtful. The static display at Farnborough has been spectacular when I have been and despite it being more of a "commercial" show the mix was really good, it keeps you watching because something different is always coming up.

At RIAT I also found it got a bit samey after the first hour. There's only so many times I can go WOW at an F-18 and with the large amount of grey military jets doing very similar routines... to the people like myself that are not knowledgeable on manouvers it all looks the same.

I think you're right FF, RIAT has become too commercial and the whole thing has moved away from what it is meant to be. The feel I get of RIAT is 50% airshow 50% amusement park and you do feel like that is how the crowd is split too.

Maybe I am not going with the flow, I was brought up since the age of 3 at Airshows like Biggin Hill, Shoreham, Mildenhall and not forgetting Woodford which was the highlight of the year to my brother and me! I guess I just like things the way they were too much.

[Fifties Fanatic]

Agree 100% and would add that, of all the shows, I think that Farnborough still attracts the highest percentage of aviation enthusiasts. I have missed the last three but fully intend to go in 2012.

[Thumper]

I had a very good job in the Aviation Industry in 2008 and got to go to Farnborough for free

I think I will put Farnborough on the list for next year instead of RIAT, I would also like to catch a show abroad and see how they differ, not just in terms of the aircraft on display. I would like to go to either MAKS or Radom, unfortunately the latter is in question after the 2009 tragedy

[Fifties Fanatic]

Don't forget Farnborough is every two years so you'll have to wait until 2012!

[Stigish]

I certainly see your frustrations thumps. Regarding the children side of things, I feel people should only take their kids if they are genuinely going to enjoy it. I checked and double checked with my army if they wanted to go or not and the reason was among other things was I didn't want them even considering the word 'bored' as it would not only spoil my day, but others too. This year I only took my 2yr old as he's as obsessed as I am and he behaved perfectly (100% better than the idiots that swarmed infront of me when the Raptor started ) When he wasn't pointing at the sky, he had his head in the programme looking at the pictures .

I definately think I was one of the lucky ones regarding the security checks. I was pushing a pushchair loaded with:
Picnic bag,
2x fold out chairs,
Camera bag,
Rucksack with waterproofs
Change bag with little fellas spare clothes/toy planes.

They probably thought "we'll be here all day with this one!".

This year I barely bothered venturing away from the flying displays. The lack of statics, the overpriced everything, rude people and the filthy looks I got when asking people if I could pass through with my pushchair!

If they keep the current format for next year, then the fair should be stuck up in the far corner of the show ground and as far away from the statics/displays as is possible. All non-aviation stands/traders should be shoved up there with them.

And what happened to the cashpoints this year? I bet a few traders lost out on good business because of the "unforseen circumstances".

[Xplumberlives]

In reply to thumpers diatribe, I have added my comments in RED!

I doubt if I will go to RIAT again, the only exception is if something VERY special that I wouldn't see in the UK appears like an SU-27 or the Blue Angels. Fair comment!

I don't have a problem with the price of RIAT, I think it is justified for 8 hours of flying when you consider that Legends is only £8 less for 4 hours of flying. It wasn't an 8 hour flying display, there were far too many long gaps!

The problem I have with RIAT is paying that price to get the living daylights beaten out of me by complete w@nkers who think they have a right to stand on top of you because they are special (or usually they have a big lens). RIAT does not have a friendly atmosphere, from the moment you walk in you are interrogated by GI Joe, surrounded by programme sellers, swamped by people handing out leaflets for Adopt a Panda and The new Toyota Prius and within 5 minutes you will usually have found a lost child screaming it's head off. That's how it is, so watch from outside where you ONLY get surrounded by fellow enthusiasts!

I shall now list what irked me at RIAT 2009, my only ever visit to RIAT;

1) GI Joe interrogating me for 30 minutes over a camping knife which was pointless as they let me in WITH it
2) The Vicky Pollard family behind me swearing at me for holding them up
3) The LARGE amount of families there with out of control kids, they are NOT there for the flying they are there because it's FREE for the kids and they have a fun fair and other such entertainment
4) The 3 mile walk to the toilets and then the 30 minute queue wait... bring your own bog roll too
5) The overpriced grandstands and enclosures and the fact that the Pimms enclosure wouldn't let me in as I wasn't suitably dressed... I don't have an option when I ride a bloody motorcycle!!! So buy a car, or don't drink Pimms!
6) The rudeness and downright aggression of people. Jumping infront of me when I am obviously taking a picture of a static plane and then snarling at me if I say "excuse me, I was taking a picture" and then being barged and actually pushed to the ground when at the front of the crowdline for the Fly Navy 100
7) The tents, windbreaks, string of 400 camping chairs tied to the fence, most of which are unoccupied
8) Some displays (usually the ones I like) are 5 minutes whilst others (Wingwalkers) are 4 hours... OK not 4 hours but they seem that long
9) The ABBA tribute band that was playing ALL day NON STOP in the region of 200dbs
10) £4.80 for a hot dog, £2.50 for a coffee
11) 10 miles of stalls ranging from secondhand clothing (not aviation related) to kids toys, sweet shops, framed paintings of Elephants and bird houses..... BIRD HOUSES!?! It took me about an hour to find a model stand amongst the junk
12) Did I already mention the large amount of unruly, noisy and downright obnoxious children that are there clearly not enjoying themselves?

Sorry but I actually found RIAT stressful and disappointing and felt it was a complete waste of time and money. I had no good photo's or video due to the sheer volume of people and the fact the grandstands were full within minutes. I would rather spend the money to go to an airshow with a friendly and relaxed atmosphere with relevant trade stands, good facilties and isn't swamped with thousands of people and children, I can safely say thats every airshow I have been to except RIAT. So view RIAT from outside the wire, either on the approach or even better from the hill at Huncott!

Flybywyre... I recommend Shoreham Airshow, Leuchars and anything thats on at Duxford, you will not be disappointed BUT don't except 8 hours of fast jets as only RIAT can supply that.

[Flybywyre7875]

I have had a good moan about Fairford I know but its differcult to find any meat left on the bone.

I wonder if France/Germany do any good Airshows? I could see myself doing a trip over the channel to stock up on ale and cheese in the process.

Fairford is best avoided I think, a revolution in the way its run would have to happen to make it what it was.

[Lucas1860]

XP, the gaps this year were very long, at some stages even I got bored, so how the young ones went on I dont know. It is fair to say that the show has gone off the peg a little. As for the tradestands, I am told that the weekend rent is very high and disuades sellers......roll in the quick buck guys. I have said earlier that I went to the Tiger Meet last year followed by the Sanicloe Airshow. Different game altogether. Only aircraft pundits went. The queue for the Tiger Meet started at 5am! The trade stands were all aviation related.

I cant make it this year due to other projects, however 2011 will see me over there again. I think RIAT next year will be a donation and sit at Totterdown in my own space, no ladders, no effing and jeffin, no silly gimmicks and a few jars to boot. In fact we ought to set up a IA village.

With regards to the statics, I am sure that a fly through would more than satisfy most of us, no need for any fancy flying, bring on the F4, the Su's and so on.

[Stigish]

Have any of you decided to vent your frustrations in the form of feedback to the show organisers?

The Survey is available online
http://www.airtattoo.com/airshow then click this picture
I was completely honest, I just hope many others do the same

[Flybywyre7875]

I'm all over that!!!!!

I just hope my wife and kids know who I amby the time i have finished.....

[Lucas1860]

Have any of you decided to vent your frustrations in the form of feedback to the show organisers?

The Survey is available online
http://www.airtattoo.com/airshow then click this picture
I was completely honest, I just hope many others do the same

Done and spilled my guts to them, praised where it is warranted, negative response to area's of poor quality.

[Xplumberlives]

What a BLOODY AWFUL survey!

Including great questions like;

Which of the following Sunday newspapers do you read at least once a week?

How many Sundays are there in a week?

and then to top it off they get some visitors to make the following comments;

First-time Air Tattoo visitor William Leigh, from Cottingham, East Yorkshire, said: "There's been a fantastic assortment of aircraft. I thought there'd be a lot of waiting about but it's been pretty much constant action: I'll definitely come again."

John Spencer from Swindon said: "We got to the show early on Sunday, and there were no queues, so it was very easy to get in, and the flying display was excellent. The Battle of Britain flypast was very good and the A400M very impressive: all in all, it's been a great day."

Are these people easily pleased?

[Stigish]

What a BLOODY AWFUL survey!

Including great questions like;

Which of the following Sunday newspapers do you read at least once a week?

How many Sundays are there in a week?

and then to top it off they get some visitors to make the following comments;

First-time Air Tattoo visitor William Leigh, from Cottingham, East Yorkshire, said: "There's been a fantastic assortment of aircraft. I thought there'd be a lot of waiting about but it's been pretty much constant action: I'll definitely come again."

John Spencer from Swindon said: "We got to the show early on Sunday, and there were no queues, so it was very easy to get in, and the flying display was excellent. The Battle of Britain flypast was very good and the A400M very impressive: all in all, it's been a great day."

Are these people easily pleased?

Note John Spencer came all the way from Swindon! He probably walked, It was quicker walking in on the Blue route on Saturday morning. The 70+yr old man that kept overtaking me on foot proved that (He was beating me over a 2mile stretch and I was in the bloody car)!

I made a big point about the traffic in the survey. Why..............I was following a green military style camper van along the A419 until the police shut the main Blue route and diverted us back up the opposite side of the A419 (the camper was last in the proper way) and around some tiny country lanes and villages. When I got to the carpark over 1 hour later the very same camper was approx 100+ cars ahead of me, I was fuming

[Xplumberlives]

Over the two days of the show I had the radio tuned to RIAT RADIO and every so often the presenter would go over for a comment on the traffic situation! It was repeatedly reported that some of the routes had up to six mile tail backs and routes were often combined in order to EASE the situation! Bloody glad I was outside watching all the queueing!

[Lucas1860]

XP I heard the same, not good. Thats why I camp, up early, earlybird carpark and in. Stop in the show until around 7.30, back to the car, to the site, beer, bbq, pushing Z's.

[Mayfly]

Haha well moving this thread was a good move then!!!!

FBW, all display crews are authorised by what ever authority - civil by CAA, military by the AOC, same goes for foreign participants - it can take months & months to train them. An unknown quantity will need to do a validation display for the FCC [Flying Control Committee] at UK venues with the exception of Farnborough where all taking part [even the Reds] have to do one.

I have seen RIAT from 3 sides, flown in with a static, Traders helping raise 558 awareness long before they got the VV & the volunteers, and the last 2 years as a punter.

None of the the above changes my mind about RIAT - it is commercially driven [has to be or it won't survive] If the commercial manager can sell a pitch 30 meters long to 1 trader it saves him finding another 4 to fill the spot. It doesn't bother me per se where he is situated BUT to place him opposite the helicopter statics where the crews gave up & left their posts half way through the day is shooting oneself in the foot!! either stick him near the funfairs or take his his mike away! I do feel the depth of the commercial stance takes away the friendliness/fun of a day out.

The last 2 years I've been as a punter was for 2 definite reasons - last year for the IA to get to meet IA members, this year to see the F22.
I can only speak as I find and I personally haven't had any issues with unruly kids and whilst I do get lots of picture with heads in them that's down to my stature rather that people pushing in front of me. At Waddington arrivals, their air show, and at RIAT when I politely asked if I could squeeze in front 'As I really love to take photos of this A/C' everyone has been more than obliging.

On the whole it's not somewhere I shall be going back too as a punter, not - but after a few text over the w/e with XP it could well be a case of Park & View!!!! just need to find a B&B!!

Edit, Survey also carried out -

[Flybywyre7875]

What a BLOODY AWFUL survey!

Including great questions like;

Which of the following Sunday newspapers do you read at least once a week?

How many Sundays are there in a week?

and then to top it off they get some visitors to make the following comments;

First-time Air Tattoo visitor William Leigh, from Cottingham, East Yorkshire, said: "There's been a fantastic assortment of aircraft. I thought there'd be a lot of waiting about but it's been pretty much constant action: I'll definitely come again."

John Spencer from Swindon said: "We got to the show early on Sunday, and there were no queues, so it was very easy to get in, and the flying display was excellent. The Battle of Britain flypast was very good and the A400M very impressive: all in all, it's been a great day."

Are these people easily pleased?

Note John Spencer came all the way from Swindon! He probably walked, It was quicker walking in on the Blue route on Saturday morning. The 70+yr old man that kept overtaking me on foot proved that (He was beating me over a 2mile stretch and I was in the bloody car)!

I made a big point about the traffic in the survey. Why..............I was following a green military style camper van along the A419 until the police shut the main Blue route and diverted us back up the opposite side of the A419 (the camper was last in the proper way) and around some tiny country lanes and villages. When I got to the carpark over 1 hour later the very same camper was approx 100+ cars ahead of me, I was fuming

Ha ha ha! what a classic

I think these people in the survey were on mushrooms! I suspect they are not Aircraft nuts as no one in there right mind would say RIAT was great. RIAT virgins deffo.

Mayfly, thanks for the heads up. Its a side of the event I know nothing about and might explain a few things.