558 2013 looking good...?

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Kermit » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:02 pm

@ ramshornvortex

:)) :)) :)) :)) :))

mmmmm.......now that you mention it..... :-o
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Bovril » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:18 pm

Minty4371 wrote:Where is No 7 located please?


they are to the rear edge of the wing , closest to the wing tips I think
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:21 pm

Bovril wrote:
Minty4371 wrote:Where is No 7 located please?


they are to the rear edge of the wing , closest to the wing tips I think

Is that left wing or right wing? (as looking from rear)
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Dan4th » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:35 pm

Here's a (small) diagram, Minty.........

Image

Looks like there's a #7 on both port
and starboard...

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:50 pm

Thank you Dan4th.
So somewhere in here.

Image

Image

Image
A small gauge found in cockpit of XM655 showing tank locations.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:38 pm

Right hand wing (looking from rear). Photos seen on: http://finningleygallery.smugmug.com/XH ... &k=JTDkjCz

Interim Report on Fuel leak.
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/493/ ... eport.html
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Sooty655 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:05 pm

From the write-up, it seems they have already eliminated pump and pipework problems. That's a shame, because they would be easier to fix.

Minty4371 wrote:Image
A small gauge found in cockpit of XM655 showing tank locations.


That gauge is part of the in-flight refuelling system. The graphic plus lights tells the co-pilot which tanks are being refuelled.

We also use it to confirm the destination tank selection when we are refuelling XM655.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:21 pm

Thank you for your reply Sooty655.
The photos that I posted were taken on Friday 15 June 2012.
That may be the end of flying for this year for 558.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Kermit » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:52 pm

A little faith please, Minty ! 558 WILL fly again before the end of the season, I ll bet you anything you like on that one :D
the ground crew has done it all before, and the Portsmouth people too, all of them know that speed is of the essence, and will strive to get it sorted asap. No7 tank is a pain to get stuff out/in but it ll be done and I for one am looking forward to seeing 558 in the air very soon :)
lets be positive, shall we ? ;)
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Sploosher » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:23 pm

forgive my ignorance, but cant they just not use tanks 7 and fly on the rest.............. :ymblushing:

if so, how much does this reduce her endurance, after all, she is not going to go flying thousands of miles at anyone time ;)
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Vulcan Bomber » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:30 am

Sploosher wrote:forgive my ignorance, but cant they just not use tanks 7 and fly on the rest.............. :ymblushing:

if so, how much does this reduce her endurance, after all, she is not going to go flying thousands of miles at anyone time ;)


The fuel system is rather important on the Vulcan in that its used to alter/maintain the aircrafts Centre of gravity to keep it in limits (same with all aircraft). 558 can and will safely fly with a number 7 tank empty, However problems could come about if theres issues with another tank. If that leak was discovered in flight the Co-pilot will be tasked with emptying the leaking tank into the other tanks to save the fuel he can while keeping the centre of gravity within limits, the Pilot would return the aircraft back to base.

Tony Blackman wrote in his book Vulcan Test Pilot (a very interesting read) that he used to try and land the Vulcan with plenty of fuel in number 7 tanks, allowing him to hold the Nose up for as long as possible to come to a halt, he said his party trick was to turn off the runway with the nose still high and put the nose down on the taxi way, somethng i'd like to of seen.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Dougs » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:58 am

One thing that is very important is the rule is that if its fitted it should work!
B-)
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Ramshornvortex » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:27 am

During flight the only two pairs of tanks that can have fuel transferred between them are Nos 1 and 7, i.e. the two most extreme tanks from a centre of gravity perspective (both in group 1 and 4). The co-pilot is responsible for monitoring the centre of gravity and can move it fore or aft as required. No other tanks contents can be transferred in flight; the individual pumps can be switched off, if desired, but that is all. The other option open to the aircrew is to open any one (or more) of three cross feeds which will allow fuel to be used to feed an engine(s) that are normally fed by other of the tanks. The Vulcan's fuel system is arranged with four tank groups that nominally feed one engine each (tanks 1, 4, 5, and 7 for engines 1 and 4, and tanks 2, 3 and 6 for engines 2 and 3).

On the ground, the refuelling/defuelling system can be switched on in the port undercarriage bay and then the port and/or starboard tank destinations can be selected for fuel movement either into tanks (using the bowser pressure) or out of tanks (using individual fuel pumps). Defuel cocks and cross feeds are also at the ground crew's disposal.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Kermit » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:41 am

Beautifully and clearly explained as always, RHV :ymapplause:

Dougs, you have got it in one, under CAA rules anything still connected MUST be in working order, hence the many systems absent on 558 (as opposed to say, 655), so unfortunately no way out of this one, its got to be done now . Fingers crossed !
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Sploosher » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:11 am

thanks for the explanation guys................ :D
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:55 pm

Money
£198,915 - 2013 Season Funding. £201,085 left to get before 31st October.
£203,880 - Operation 2015 Pledges. £196,120 left to get before 31st October.

As of 3rd September 2013

Update on the Fuel Tank Leak
We wish to apologise to all those who made a special journey to see XH558 on Sunday. During the pre-flight inspections, a fuel leak was found coming from the No.7 wing tank on the starboard side, which resulted in our engineering team cancelling all possibility of flight.
This followed two successful flights the day before and was a huge disappointment to all on the team. We know it was also a huge blow to the many thousands of people gathered at Bournemouth and Shoreham too. However, as has always been the case, safety is our number one priority.
XH558 is maintained to the highest of standards; this has been the first technical cancellation of the entire 2013 season to date, quite an achievement for a 53-year-old aircraft.
The tank in question was drained on Sunday and left to vent for Monday, which is normal procedure to allow time for the fuel vapour to be expelled.
Earlier today our engineers started to investigate the problem. This tank was one of the original ones fitted to XH558 and was reconditioned during the restoration. A series of pictures below show just how confined the space is in the No.7 wing tank.

Image
The area is just about deep enough to crawl through but is not for the claustrophobic!

Image
This is a No.7 tank fuel bladder under test prior to its installation in the aircraft.

We have to announce that with this news we will not be able to fly this weekend.
WE ARE VERY SORRY THAT OUR PLANNED DISPLAY AT RAF LEUCHARS HAS THEREFORE BEEN CANCELLED.
Once the cause of the leak has been found a decision will be made on whether a repair is possible or if a new tank needs to be manufactured. We are unlikely to have any further news on timescales for a few days, but as soon as we are able, we will provide a further update. Please continue to read these newsletters.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:47 pm

Money
£216,334 - 2013 Season Funding. £183,666 left to get before 31st October.
£228,455 - Operation 2015 Pledges. £171,545 left to get before 31st October.

As of 6th September 2013

Latest Update on the Fuel Tank Leak
Earlier this week, with further investigation, we traced the fuel leak seen on Sunday to No.5 Tank Starboard, not as indicated by the leak as being from No.7 Tank - the leaking fuel was tracking back in the aircraft’s structure and emerging under No.7 Tank.
Image
The No.7 tank sump plate pipework is clearly visible to the left of the No.5 tank sump where our technicians are now working.

We are currently getting ready to inspect No. 5 Tank fully, having drained and vented it, to assess the size of the problem. The tank will then be removed and sent to FPT Industries for further investigation and possible repair or remanufacture.
We don’t have a date for when the aircraft will be likely to be serviceable but we will update you just as soon as the engineers and OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) feedback the information.
Please continue reading these newsletters for further news.

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Dan4th » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:51 pm

Just about 55 percent....

Still about 44,000 needed per week...

Looking more doable ;)

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:16 pm

£229,146 - 2013 Season Funding. £170,854 left to get before 31st October.
£255,710 - Operation 2015 Pledges. £144,290 left to get before 31st October.

As of 10th September 2013
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Dan4th » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:19 pm

Over 60 percent!

315,144 to go!

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:52 pm

IMPORTANT NEWS - Latest on XH558 Fuel Leak.
Issued at 4pm Wednesday 11th September
We have now received a report on the state of the leaking No.5 tank from specialists FPT Industries in Portsmouth.
Given that more than one leak and other signs of deterioration were found, and that the tank is itself over 30 years old, we have concluded that, if repaired, the tank would remain vulnerable to further leaks.
We have therefore decided that repair of the tank would not prove economical and, if reinstalled on the aircraft, could prove to be unreliable.
There is no airworthy spare available; we have accordingly commissioned a new tank to be manufactured immediately.
With an estimated 16 week lead time for manufacture, we are very sorry to announce that it will not be possible to return the aircraft to flight again in 2013.
XH558 has therefore sadly made her last public appearance this year.
We now wish to concentrate on ensuring we are able to secure sufficient funding to return XH558 to the air for another two seasons.
Please await further news in upcoming official newsletters and VTST Press Releases.

This was taken from XH558 homepage.
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Dougs » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:50 pm

Minty4371 wrote:Thanks Bovril. If it is the tank, then my statement that she won't fly again this year stands. It looks like we'll have to wait for an official announcement whenever it arrives.

:-o any chance of a set of lottery numbers minty?
B-)
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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Minty4371 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:27 pm

£248,642 - 2013 Season Funding. £151,358 left to get before 31st October.
£270,115 - Operation 2015 Pledges. £129,885 left to get before 31st October.

As of 13th September 2013

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Dan4th » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:24 pm

Almost 65 percent, and the weekly
amount required is going down :D

7 weeks to go, and....

I believe they will do it !

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Re: 558 2013 looking good...?

Postby Ray C » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:37 pm

I think so as well.....even with the added extra of a replacement fuel tank...
what's it cost I wonder....?
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