558 latest

Discussions on XM655, XH558, XM607, XL426 or any other preserved aircraft

Re: 558 latest

Postby RLN » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:39 pm

:))
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Re: 558 latest

Postby IanM » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:45 pm

What's funny?
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Ducati Boy » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:05 pm

Dangerousdave wrote:Whether the government pay towards it or not, there has still been alot of money thrown at it already. I want to see her fly again for sure, but from what I once read on the old TVC site, it was destined to only fly a further 5 or 6 years anyway. It's alot of hard work and money going into what is a short term of flying.

I find it strange though that TVOC want people struggling to pay bills, mortgages etc to contribute to the wages of people in TVIC who are on VAST amounts of money. It sounds a bit like 'Well I may earn 5 times your salary, but can YOU give me some of your money anyway please'.

Also, the government wont give 1 Million for the project, but we give more than that PER HOUR to Europe and have to beg for a bit back. Also, a million might sound like a lot of money, but how much does a Typhoon cost? A birdstrike in one of those rights off, what, 60 million or so?

On a lighter note, I have a friend on the engineer team who is giving me a guided tour behind the scenes on Monday and I'm really excited. I did ask for a test drive but was told I couldnt have one. They wouldn't even let me have an Olympus for my BMW. The amount I have given to TVOC I reckon I must have bought one by now.
Well Dangerous Dave. I agree with most you say, however, a word in defence of the engineers at TVOC. I don't know any of the shop floor engineers who get 5 times your salary =)) and most probably they get less than your average take home pay, work long unpaid overtime hours and can't afford a BMW either. :(( If that kind of wages were being paid to the engineering folk, I'd give 3/4 back and still be better off than now! ;) I can't speak for 'da management' however and leave you to draw your own conclusions there.

Mate,If you really believe engineers are overpaid ask your friend on Monday, his reaction could be very enlightening, ~x( although, I'd ask after your trip behind the scenes or your tour may end up in a skip :)) . If on the other hand you are actually referring to some other part of the TVOC 'empire', please be more specific, the lads don't need any more c**p than they are already getting.:)
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Louise » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:54 pm

IanM wrote:I'm sorry, what are you trying to say?



TRYING!

I am stating that you are the MOST PEDANTIC individual I have ever encountered on any forum!
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Coastergirl » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:33 pm

I think Ian's pedantic-ness there was a good thing, personally, there are 3 vulcans in America (and 1 in Canada) which Checkflaps obviously wasn't aware of - surely its always better to be well informed?

And there was a smiley/laughy icon after it, to show it wasn't meant to be rude. I think the pedant command was just a bit of sarcasm, lol, don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.

JMHO.

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Re: 558 latest

Postby Checkflaps » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:45 pm

Thanks for the heads up on the 'extra' vulcan . I thought there were only 2 - but now I have another to visit as and when I can convince Rach that we need to do another US road trip. On the flipside - this time we'll have a little un with us. ~x(

As for the pedantic comment............ not seen as such from my angle [-x . Nice to be set straight in a sensible / humourous way. Now if only I had been switched on at 4 this morning and looked at the google map. \:D/ Cheers for your eforts on that IanM.

Right - back to saving a Vulcan :))

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Re: 558 latest

Postby MadNaddy » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:55 pm

IanM wrote:[pedant mode] There are 3 [/pedant mode]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF ... be&t=h&z=4

:D


=)) =)) =)) =))

Sorry, just catching up on the forum. What an "oooooooooooooo get you Mr M" moment if ever there was one!

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Re: 558 latest

Postby Spitfire » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:14 pm

MadNaddy wrote:Pedantic to the last!


Pedantically I could say I thought I was as pedantic - but is that too pedantic :ymblushing: :D :p
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Coastergirl » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:24 pm

maybe :p
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Re: 558 latest

Postby RLN » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:53 pm

I thought Ian's reply to the first comment was deadpan humour, and that's why I thought it was funny. No offence meant, Ian.
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Re: 558 latest

Postby IanM » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:38 pm

:-bd
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Dangerousdave » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:10 pm

Ducati Boy wrote:
Dangerousdave wrote:Whether the government pay towards it or not, there has still been alot of money thrown at it already. I want to see her fly again for sure, but from what I once read on the old TVC site, it was destined to only fly a further 5 or 6 years anyway. It's alot of hard work and money going into what is a short term of flying.

I find it strange though that TVOC want people struggling to pay bills, mortgages etc to contribute to the wages of people in TVIC who are on VAST amounts of money. It sounds a bit like 'Well I may earn 5 times your salary, but can YOU give me some of your money anyway please'.

Also, the government wont give 1 Million for the project, but we give more than that PER HOUR to Europe and have to beg for a bit back. Also, a million might sound like a lot of money, but how much does a Typhoon cost? A birdstrike in one of those rights off, what, 60 million or so?

On a lighter note, I have a friend on the engineer team who is giving me a guided tour behind the scenes on Monday and I'm really excited. I did ask for a test drive but was told I couldnt have one. They wouldn't even let me have an Olympus for my BMW. The amount I have given to TVOC I reckon I must have bought one by now.
Well Dangerous Dave. I agree with most you say, however, a word in defence of the engineers at TVOC. I don't know any of the shop floor engineers who get 5 times your salary =)) and most probably they get less than your average take home pay, work long unpaid overtime hours and can't afford a BMW either. :(( If that kind of wages were being paid to the engineering folk, I'd give 3/4 back and still be better off than now! ;) I can't speak for 'da management' however and leave you to draw your own conclusions there.

Mate,If you really believe engineers are overpaid ask your friend on Monday, his reaction could be very enlightening, ~x( although, I'd ask after your trip behind the scenes or your tour may end up in a skip :)) . If on the other hand you are actually referring to some other part of the TVOC 'empire', please be more specific, the lads don't need any more c**p than they are already getting.:)



I'm not giving the workers or flight crew and c**p. I think they do a great job. My main problems are that the management obviously haven't managed as well as first thought. Also the TVOC forum moderators have upset alot of people by their actions. In the grand scale of 60 million+ people in this country there is only a tiny fraction who are really bothered whether 558 flies again, the management misleading the few people left who care is not a wise move.
Additionally they kept quoting figures for money needed and then kept altering it almost daily, not by a coupl of pounds but by MASSIVE amounts. At one point people were actually having to ask the management to be HONEST to those donating their hard-earned cash, just what money was really needed. Says it all really doen't it?
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Re: 558 latest

Postby MadNaddy » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:14 pm

:-?? ~x(
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Mayfly » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:20 am

I must admit DD that if a figure is quoted it needs to be the figure that everyone quotes, In trying to give financial information so members of the public understand the full operating costs the figures were, I believe, split between monthly non-flying costs and total operating costs - all this did was to confuse the pubilic & made the trust look like they weren't singing from the same hymn sheet.....

I remember an occasson when 2 members of the management were interviewed within minutes of each other on TV & there was £20K difference in the amount quoted.
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Spitfire » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:53 am

An office colleague tells me that Martin Withers was on Radio 5 Live last evening and the text and email response to the programme and what Martin said was very encouraging with loads of people wanting to know where they can go to help - all good news :D
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Re: 558 latest

Postby MadNaddy » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:03 am

\:D/
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Mayfly » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:21 am

Spitfire wrote:An office colleague tells me that Martin Withers was on Radio 5 Live last evening and the text and email response to the programme and what Martin said was very encouraging with loads of people wanting to know where they can go to help - all good news :D


yep and in addition to that DT did a live interview on BBC radio yesterday morning & Kev Rumens was the sofa guest on the same station this morning...........
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Re: 558 latest

Postby IanM » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:04 pm

Spitfire wrote:An office colleague tells me that Martin Withers was on Radio 5 Live last evening and the text and email response to the programme and what Martin said was very encouraging with loads of people wanting to know where they can go to help - all good news :D


I'm sure MrTim won't mind me posting these links of his...

http://www.tuscan-net.co.uk/vulcan/Martin_Withers_on_5Live.mp3
http://www.tuscan-net.co.uk/vulcan/Martin_Withers_on_5Live.wma
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Re: 558 latest

Postby MadNaddy » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:18 pm

Mayfly wrote:yep and in addition to that DT did a live interview on BBC radio yesterday morning & Kev Rumens was the sofa guest on the same station this morning...........


:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Ducati Boy » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Dangerousdave wrote:
Ducati Boy wrote:
Dangerousdave wrote:Whether the government pay towards it or not, there has still been alot of money thrown at it already. I want to see her fly again for sure, but from what I once read on the old TVC site, it was destined to only fly a further 5 or 6 years anyway. It's alot of hard work and money going into what is a short term of flying.

I find it strange though that TVOC want people struggling to pay bills, mortgages etc to contribute to the wages of people in TVIC who are on VAST amounts of money. It sounds a bit like 'Well I may earn 5 times your salary, but can YOU give me some of your money anyway please'.

Also, the government wont give 1 Million for the project, but we give more than that PER HOUR to Europe and have to beg for a bit back. Also, a million might sound like a lot of money, but how much does a Typhoon cost? A birdstrike in one of those rights off, what, 60 million or so?

On a lighter note, I have a friend on the engineer team who is giving me a guided tour behind the scenes on Monday and I'm really excited. I did ask for a test drive but was told I couldnt have one. They wouldn't even let me have an Olympus for my BMW. The amount I have given to TVOC I reckon I must have bought one by now.
Well Dangerous Dave. I agree with most you say, however, a word in defence of the engineers at TVOC. I don't know any of the shop floor engineers who get 5 times your salary =)) and most probably they get less than your average take home pay, work long unpaid overtime hours and can't afford a BMW either. :(( If that kind of wages were being paid to the engineering folk, I'd give 3/4 back and still be better off than now! ;) I can't speak for 'da management' however and leave you to draw your own conclusions there.

Mate,If you really believe engineers are overpaid ask your friend on Monday, his reaction could be very enlightening, ~x( although, I'd ask after your trip behind the scenes or your tour may end up in a skip :)) . If on the other hand you are actually referring to some other part of the TVOC 'empire', please be more specific, the lads don't need any more c**p than they are already getting.:)



I'm not giving the workers or flight crew and c**p. I think they do a great job. My main problems are that the management obviously haven't managed as well as first thought. Also the TVOC forum moderators have upset alot of people by their actions. In the grand scale of 60 million+ people in this country there is only a tiny fraction who are really bothered whether 558 flies again, the management misleading the few people left who care is not a wise move.
Additionally they kept quoting figures for money needed and then kept altering it almost daily, not by a coupl of pounds but by MASSIVE amounts. At one point people were actually having to ask the management to be HONEST to those donating their hard-earned cash, just what money was really needed. Says it all really doen't it?
Dangerous dave,
Thanks for making your intention clear, now we know who and what you are targeting. :ymapplause: I don't challenge your views mate, you are entitled to them and to express them long may it be so. :)

The problem is, that forum folk, mostly unintentionally I am sure, just chuck out the blanket statement "TVOC did this" or "TVOC didn't do that". This hits both blameworthy and innocent equally. It gives and maintains the anonimity of the former, and causes unjustifiable offence to the later. :(

All organisations have members who are The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, but that doesn't make everyone bad! :)

So please everyone when expressing your disatisfaction with any group, " Shoot at your enemies not your friends" ;) Happy hunting :D :ymdevil: :ymdevil:
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Re: 558 latest

Postby Oberon » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:31 pm

and causes unjustifiable offence to the latter.

Spot on as usual DB (or BB?).

p.s. How's the neck?

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Re: 558 latest

Postby Gully » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:13 pm

Dan4th wrote:SM:

I'd have to tear down my house, I'm afraid, to
make room......

STILL ANGRY! Who wrote that "press release"?

I really DO want to know!

Seething Murkin:

Dan4th


Interesting the different perspectives on this release. I posted over on the VTST's forum my compliments to the author. IMHO it "pushes all the buttons" for being stirring and emotive. Past releases have been distinctly insipid. Whether or not there is an American buyer lurking in the wings is irrelevant if the mere thought of it provokes the British public and / or a wealthy British philanthropist to reach into their pockets to save their British icon. Furthermore, this angle is far more likely to gain our media's interest, which is essential if this publicity push has any chance of success. Whilst that may appear distasteful to some, the Trust has nothing to lose and everything to gain, so the gloves are off. Whether their actions are too late, time will tell.

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Re: 558 latest

Postby Saracenman » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:55 pm

i've been given the full transcript of Dr. P's full press release of 11th February. some of it has made it on to the TVOC news pages, but not all.

just posted it on TVOC forum too :D

very interesting reading...

VTST Press Conf 11 Feb 09 - RWP statement


Thank you for coming to this Press Conference; I have three important announcements to make. I will be speaking for about 10 minutes, after which I will open up the meeting for questions.

But first let me remind you of a few facts. The Avro Vulcan was designed in the late 1940’s by the same team that built the Avro Lancaster, to carry the British atomic bomb. Despite the modern aspects of her design, only eleven years separated the first flight of the Vulcan from the first flight of the Lancaster. Believe it or not, the Vulcan’s first flight in 1952 is nearer in time to the Wright Brothers first ever flight in 1903, than it is to today.

The Vulcan is a stunning example of the best of British engineering. What other creations still stop people in their tracks 55 years after their first appearance?

Our Vulcan, Vulcan XH558, is the only flying Vulcan in the world, and is also the oldest complete Vulcan anywhere.

She is 48-and-a-half years old, and up until she was grounded in 1993, she was flying in service with the Royal Air Force.

XH558 represents the over 300 bombers which made up the UK’s contribution to the NATO strategy of deterrence. The RAF’s V-Force helped save the world during the bleak and dangerous years of the Cold War. Our Vulcan is now an inspiring tribute to the hundreds of thousands of dedicated service men and women who maintained and flew the aircraft. She is a vital part of Britain’s heritage.

Some twelve years ago in 1997, the effort to return her to flight was started. One-by-one, the vast number of tasks to get her flying again were completed, not the least of which was raising the £7million it eventually needed to complete the restoration.

£2.7million of this came from the Heritage Lottery Fund, who recognized the importance of the Vulcan to the Nation. Further contributions came in kind from the aerospace industry and the Royal Air Force, including significant support from Marshall of Cambridge. But the majority of the cash came from an entirely supportive public, who desperately wanted to see her fly again.

We returned XH558 to flight on 18th October 2007, and over last summer she made a triumphant re-appearance to air displays around the UK. I have to say that she was the star of the show wherever she appeared, and airshows saw increased gates, generating such a strong spectator reaction that the media were moved to call it the Vulcan Effect.

What has truly surprised and pleased us is the reaction of youngsters seeing the Vulcan for the first time. There are very few sights and sounds with the power to stimulate and inspire the young, but the Vulcan in flight is indisputably one of them.

I must mention the significant enthusiastic help and assistance we received from the Royal Air Force over last summer. Without this, operating the Vulcan would have been an order of magnitude more difficult.

That was last summer. The first announcement I have to make is to let you know that the prospects of seeing the Vulcan fly again in 2009 are right at the moment looking very poor.

Like many small businesses at the end of the economic food chain, the Vulcan to the Sky Trust is running out of cash. The current conditions – an economic “Perfect Storm” – have made corporate sponsorship increasingly difficult to secure, and recessionary fears are understandably limiting the flow of charitable donations. We have just enough to pay our wages bill at the end of the month. So last Monday, I had to put all of our employees on one month’s notice.

That is not to say we are giving up – quite the contrary. One of the reasons for holding this Press Conference is that whilst huge numbers of people saw the Vulcan display last summer, by contrast, hardly anyone knows of our plight now.

We need you to tell them.

We need to raise £1million to keep going this year. Unfortunately because of the nature of our costs it is funding that we need to have in place before we can commit to carrying on.

We have not been standing still. Just before Christmas, we started a Pledge campaign, looking for promises of donations which we would call in once we reached our target. We have been really heartened by the response, because even over the Christmas period, we have today reached £260,000. We can add at least £150,000 from other sources to this amount so we are getting on for half way.

However we can’t turn these pledges into cash until we are confident that we can make it through the 2009 season, and that means having identified the full £1million we need.

I would therefore ask you to spread the word far and wide – for if people want to see the amazing Vulcan fly again this year, they need to help us by pledging now, either through our website, or by phone to our office. Even the smallest pledge helps, because it is people in their thousands who make the difference.

The very real danger is that we don’t get anywhere near our target of £1million. If we don’t, the Trust will be destined to rapidly go into administration, which would inevitably lead to the sale of the aircraft, probably to an American buyer. The result - the loss of this proud and important part of our heritage from Britain.

It’s quite remarkable that £50million can be raised for a Titian that will be seen by only a few thousand people a year, but we are struggling to raise a fiftieth of that amount for another stirringly beautiful creation that will be seen by millions every year. In today’s currency, all we need is a banker’s bonus!

To help our fundraising, our supporters association, the Vulcan to the Sky Club, now the largest aircraft supporters club in the UK with more than 7,000 members, is taking a leading role in helping us find the funding.

This leads me to my second announcement, of the “Vulcan Scramble”, which will start at midnight next Saturday 22nd February, when a small team from the Club will attempt to visit all the 15 existing Vulcan aircraft at museums around the UK in just 24 hours, from East Fortune near Edinburgh to Southend in Essex. In partnership with local news media, the Vulcan Scramble team is trying to sign up as many pledges as possible in one day, with the huge target of £500,000!

If we do reach our funding target for 2009, and I sincerely hope this is the case, it begs the question – what about 2010 and so on?

The Trust’s experiences over 2008 have given us much data on the costs of keeping the Vulcan flying; all-in-all, it costs 60pence for each one of the 3million spectators who will see each year we fly.

We have realized that if we are to avoid being in the same situation this time next year, searching desperately for money, then we do have to radically change our strategy and adopt a new business model.

This is something about we’re consulting on, and we’re open to ideas from anyone!

We will be talking to industry. For example, in the last few months, we have been flattered to have had conversations with Boeing about possible lessons from flying the Vulcan that might be of value to the new NASA/Boeing Blended Wing Body demonstrator, the X-48B, currently flying out at Edwards Air Force Base in California, which is one possible direction for a new type of more environmentally-friendly aircraft..

We will also be talking to Government. Lord Mandelson, Business Secretary, has said that “we need less financial engineers, more real engineers”. This is something that XH558 can help with, by encouraging young people to think about design and engineering. Lord Drayson of the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills has indicated he would like to see us about the messages that Vulcan can bring on innovation and skills. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport are very keen to see one of its most successful Heritage projects reach its full potential. We can continue to bring benefits to the Royal Air Force in terms of recruitment, and public recognition of their role and heritage.

So with these announcements, I have told you where we are, the difficulties we face in the short term, the way, with you the media’s help, we can move forward, and also how we are thinking about the future of the Vulcan in the longer term.

To keep the Vulcan flying, we need people to indicate their support for XH558 this year, by making a pledge, but just as importantly by showing their long-term support through voting on our petition on the Number 10 website.

Thank you.

I would now like to open up this Press Conference to questions.

Robert Pleming
Chief Executive
Vulcan to the Sky Trust


:)

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Re: 558 latest

Postby Gully » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Excellent: thanks for that SM. Places the extracts nicely in context. :ymapplause:

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Re: 558 latest

Postby Ducati Boy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:54 am

Oberon wrote:
and causes unjustifiable offence to the latter.

Spot on as usual DB (or BB?).

p.s. How's the neck?

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They seek him here, they seek him there, they seek the BB everywhere :p

I believe BB's neck is a royal pain, along with a rib and a foot that doen't seem to be improving much :( :(( and his impatience X( at the slow pace of recovery is making him mad from watching endless daytime TV and soaps! :o) I'll tell him you asked. ;)

ps Whats this Oberon name then? Are you King of the Fairies then? Your not related to the guy who makes the Rocking horses in wildest Wilts are you? :))
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