558 news updates

Discussions on XM655, XH558, XM607, XL426 or any other preserved aircraft

Re: 558 news updates

Postby Dan4th » Sun May 22, 2011 4:11 pm

I think you've misinterpreted.......

He meant that the engineers could do a better
job at managing the aircraft than the ones who
manage her now

I don't think ANYONE feels that the hands-on
guys aren't the cream of the crop.

All of us KNOW this.

Please re-read the post.

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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Xplumberlives » Sun May 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Oh Gordon, try and go with the flow, people who have posted in here have gone to great lengths to emphasise their support for the Engineers!

They are clearly NOT the problem!
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Hungry Haggis » Sun May 22, 2011 6:41 pm

My only comment on splooshers post ,The red highlight was toooo short ,he missed the important bit at the start of the line. Keep the Engineers thay have and make them dual rolled they could probably do a better job.
Give them both the managment and the enginering jobs OH & more money .i see nothing about replacing those guys anywhere in any posts .
Mind you this is not really the place for arguments to start about something we all agree on (strangely) IE the engineers are the best at what they have to do .
now can we get this topic back on track Preeetttyyyy Ppppplllleeeeaaaaasssssse. no one is knocking engineeres .
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Xplumberlives » Sun May 22, 2011 7:45 pm

I don't think it's gone OFF TOPIC!
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby PhantomAviator » Sun May 22, 2011 8:37 pm

Sploosher wrote:
PhantomAviator wrote:
Hungry Haggis wrote:I no longer comment on TVOC inadequacies or otherwise ( I bet someone says thats splat wrong ) =)) .I have not seen the usual threat to Taff & the crews long term employment prospects looking after 558 I don't want to as has been said in support of the ground crew and also the flight crews they do a fantastic job and as long as they are allowed I imagine they will continue to do so .What sticks in my throat is all the last minute stuff like she won't fly no More unless X or Y is reached we all know this so why repeat it all the time like a stuck record .Revenue streams coming later in the year ain't no good to 558 & people as is being seen now are fed up with the constant threats of she will be sold abroad or grounded forever,people are having to tighten their own finances due to rising costs etc .This has also been battered to death in several places they need to widen their field of fund raising and publicity .to the WHOLE country not just a small part of it Sorry TVOC but you need to spend money to make it/get donations .OH that has also been said plenty in the past as well.558s flying life is coming to an end one day "I've" heard years from 2012 2014 and 2015 in the past But boy are they making heavy weather of it getting there .All I see regardless of how many posts thread titles topics etc is the Vulcan's in trouble financially again we have left it to the last minute to screw you all over please empty your wallet here just so we can do it all again in 6,8,10 or 12 months .This has also been said before there was supposed to be a concrete plan to stop this happening all the time.LEOPARD & NOT changing spots comes to mind .

Rant over back to sleep on this subject :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH:




Fully agree HH.
I work in the Aerospace Industry, the company I work for has just announced redundancies, but bless them they are going to create several posts for which those being made redundant can apply for.
The new posts 'Management' the redundant posts, 'Floor Workers'.
It is time that VTTS realised that they can make as many floor redundant and keep as many Sit on Ar*e people as they like the situation will get worse.
But if they were to get rid of the high paid Sit on Ar*e people then allow the Floor people to be dual traded, that the situation may improve greatly.
But as we know there was only one Sit on Ar*e who would get his hands dirty by hands on work.

Sorry from now on my pockets are definately empty until they stop the high wages of Sit on Ar*e.

Keep the Engineers thay have and make them dual rolled they could probably do a better job.
My rant over.


Asking the engineers to do a better job...................... :-o :-o X( X(

After spending 3 days at RHA and chatting with one of the best bunch of people,( 558`s engineers)I have ever met, I would like to say that there is no way they could do a better job than they are doing now, we have what must be the best that there is, and there is no way thay they will shirk there duties etc, to risk losing a flightworthy 558..... :ymapplause: :ymapplause: \:D/ \:D/

If you think you know people who are capable of doing a better job then I am sure they would like to meet them...... :D

Thas my rant over.................... ;)

Next rant please.......... :))



Sorry Spoosher, should have been more specific, I wasn't saying the Engineers were doing a bad job, what I was indicating was that they could do a better management job, along with their own. Thereby getting rid of the Sit on Ar*e lot that cost money.
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Nickolas » Sun May 22, 2011 8:42 pm

Errr, 'scuse me but apart from Dr Bob, who are the rest of the SoA group.
PM me if you don't want to risk legal action etc, etc. :))
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby PhantomAviator » Sun May 22, 2011 9:03 pm

Nickolas wrote:Errr, 'scuse me but apart from Dr Bob, who are the rest of the SoA group.
PM me if you don't want to risk legal action etc, etc. :))

I feel a super injunction coming on =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) :D
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Wedgy » Sun May 22, 2011 9:43 pm

... runs to twitter =))
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Xplumberlives » Sun May 22, 2011 10:00 pm

Nice observation! =)) =)) =)) =))
"All modern aircraft have 4 dimensions: span, length, height and politics.
TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
— Sir Sydney Camm
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Gully » Mon May 23, 2011 2:20 pm

Just how is this a 'last minute' appeal to people? The appeal's been running for 3 months or so and as the end date has been drawing closer so the nature of the updates has become more forceful. This appeal is on the point of failing and the Trust being wound up as a result - I would hope that they would be somewhat more emotive at such a time!

@ Dan4th - In your page 2 post what are you suggesting the Club does, please? As an organisation we contribute in the region of 5% of the Trust's income, plus we arrange free labour for the Vulcan Village and other Trust shows. Our members contribute much more than the 5%, but they do so directly to the Trust via standing orders, the flying fund draw etc. Under the Club constitution and the Memorandum of Understanding between the Trust and Club we are obliged to supprt the Trust as operators / owners (held in Trust) of XH558: there is no mechanism for withholding that support without a mandate secured via an EGM or AGM of the Club. Our main strength (which is actually enshrined in the Trust's incorporation documents available via the Charities Commission website) is as a conduit for expressing our members' opinions (ie. those of the public) directly to the Trust: this we do regularly.

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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Jack » Mon May 23, 2011 3:31 pm

So if worst case comes, trust shuts down everyone disbands, who pays for 558 then? Doncaster or whatever its called is going to want there monthly rent, hangerage etc, theres no academy set up to bring in funds, I doubt theres much chance of fast taxi runs as its relativly active airport which cant just close down to allow a 1000 or so spectators to stand around and watch 558 do a taxi or 2,maintence would be difficult all the required passes etc theres no other atraction at the airport i.e other fast taxi aircraft. in my opinion if the trust is to fold she will have to be moved from doncaster because I dont think the club can afford to keep her there she will need to be moved to a museum Bruntingthorpe, Elvington or Coventry, if she stays she will go the same way as XM603
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Hungry Haggis » Mon May 23, 2011 4:00 pm

Jack wrote:So if worst case comes, trust shuts down everyone disbands, who pays for 558 then? Doncaster or whatever its called is going to want there monthly rent, hangerage etc, theres no academy set up to bring in funds, I doubt theres much chance of fast taxi runs as its relativly active airport which cant just close down to allow a 1000 or so spectators to stand around and watch 558 do a taxi or 2,maintence would be difficult all the required passes etc theres no other atraction at the airport i.e other fast taxi aircraft. in my opinion if the trust is to fold she will have to be moved from doncaster because I dont think the club can afford to keep her there she will need to be moved to a museum Bruntingthorpe, Elvington or Coventry, if she stays she will go the same way as XM603


Not sure they will shut down/fold .Hope not anyway ,speaking for myself here but i think some on here like me took on some of the media push around 2007-08 trying to get 558 into the press more publicity/ club members etc ,for me this is why i get so PEE'd when i hear or read negative stuff about things.This bit is pure speculation but if they did wind it up i have a feeling that she would find her way back to Brunty for retirement ,but i sure don't want that to happenen for a long time yet.Look on the bright side she has a lot to do yet & I don't even want to think about 558 going the way of XM603 .i have a feeling because of the Lottery money that 558 will be around for a long time yet.
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Nickolas » Mon May 23, 2011 4:21 pm

Interesting that she will be static at Brunty.

Do you think it might be a back stop that if it all goes belly up she will perform a ferry flight to Brunty and join CWJ's??

Call me cynical but that's what I'd be thinking of doing. At least it may solve the landlord issues but we don't know what the tenancy agreement was. So endeth today's speculation.
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Dan4th » Mon May 23, 2011 5:21 pm

Gully:

I have believed for a long while that the Club
could be using the Power of the Purse to more
directly influence the behavio(u)r/activities of
the Trust.

If my understanding of the arrangement isn't
correct, then I sincerely apologize.

I do hope you will forgive my current frustration
level, but many of us just shake our heads and
sigh when these situations arise.

Of course, my not being a club member doesn't
exactly strengthen my case, either.........

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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Nickolas » Mon May 23, 2011 5:31 pm

I think what might help swing the sympathy vote is if the Trust outlines what it's financial plan was from the end of last season and demonstrates where it was going and where it currently is THEN overlays the increases that have been imposed by changes to VAT etc.

At least this way the public can see what the plan was and how it was derailed by 'force majure' (sp?).

I think that this approach may gain some sympathy and convince good old Joe Public to have a rake round the back of the sofa etc.


Thoughts anyone?
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Kermit » Mon May 23, 2011 6:02 pm

Agreed. The Trust MUST try and get the sympathy vote, amongst others. Being a little more forthcoming with facts and figures has never been their forte, but they must do so. Whatever is or is not to blame, there is still time to try harder. 558 always comes to the brink, gets rescued, then it starts all over again. More clarity could at last get that elusive sponsor they never got. As for finishing up in Brunty, the Lottery would probably have a say on this. Wrongs everywhere but at the end of the day it would be criminal to ground her when she still has flying time left. Fingers crossed and get those wallets open please !
PS its "force majeure"
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Gully » Mon May 23, 2011 6:06 pm

In order..!

@ Nickolas 1 - as I understand it, if the Trust was to fold, then ultimately the HLF would decide where '558 ended up as they have first call over the asset. I would guess that the Trust has to hold a reserve to allow such a 'final' flight

@ Dan4th - I had assumed that was what you were inferring, hence my clarification that the Club's purse string holding power is pretty limited as we contribute as an organisation only around one twentieth of the Trust's annual income. However, the total contribution made by our members is far greater as many of them give directly, but over that the Club has no sway. I thought it worthwhile to set out the process that the Club would need to go through to actually enact a withholding of funds

@ Nickolas 2 - I agree. The problem with the bi-weekly updates is that the original information becomes lost very swiftly. Unlike the old days when the 2 month old appeal launch would still be the top news item... ;)

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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Ducati Boy » Tue May 24, 2011 12:08 am

PhantomAviator wrote:Fully agree HH.
I work in the Aerospace Industry, the company I work for has just announced redundancies, but bless them they are going to create several posts for which those being made redundant can apply for.
The new posts 'Management' the redundant posts, 'Floor Workers'.
It is time that VTTS realised that they can make as many floor redundant and keep as many Sit on Ar*e people as they like the situation will get worse.
But if they were to get rid of the high paid Sit on Ar*e people then allow the Floor people to be dual traded, that the situation may improve greatly.
But as we know there was only one Sit on Ar*e who would get his hands dirty by hands on work.

Sorry from now on my pockets are definately empty until they stop the high wages of Sit on Ar*e.

Keep the Engineers thay have and make them dual rolled they could probably do a better job.
My rant over.


Just popped back to see whats what on the new server. Nothings changed since I last looked, needle still stuck on same record and ignorance is still bliss I see.
By the way TVOC engineers are already cross trained and dual traded where it is necessary, some of you folks really must catch up! Bye again!
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Dan4th » Tue May 24, 2011 12:17 am

DB!

Thank God you've paid a visit!

Please stick around for a while so we can
get some good information!

Your regular attendance is missed.

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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Sickbag_andy » Tue May 24, 2011 4:51 pm

Good news re Sunday in the latest NewsBytes:

Cold War Jets at Bruntingthorpe, a statement on our operations.

Following various requests for details, we would like to clarify what will be happening during XH558's presence at the Cold War Jets Day at Bruntingthorpe on Sunday 29th May.

We now understand that the crowd will be repositioned away from the runway on Sunday afternoon so as to meet our safety requirements, so subject to this and other safety conditions being fulfilled, we will be able to take off on the Sunday with the crowd present.

On the day, Vulcan to the Sky Club Members will receive a £5 discount off the admission price and also be entitled to a free aircraft tour (subject to availability) on production of a valid membership card. A charge will apply to all non-members.


just need that ash to stay well away
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Mayfly » Tue May 24, 2011 5:10 pm

Already mentioned
Here
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Very fond memories of Robbie Gilvary - DTs 1st Vulcan Captain who taught DT all he knew.
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Exceptionalsleeper » Tue May 24, 2011 5:50 pm

Hello strangers, its been a long time but I could resist a little stir but my points are on a serious note.

Ducati Boy wrote:Just popped back to see whats what on the new server. Nothings changed since I last looked, needle still stuck on same record and ignorance is still bliss I see.


Perhaps because nothing changes were XH558 is concerned. Maybe the public are now seeing the management (or lack of) for what it is. The periodic begging bowl has indeed become that stuck needle and the management, yes, ignorant in its belief that the loyal supporter will bail them out again.

At least if the Trust does fold, Pleming can finally find a new job so he can put some money away for his pension - poor blokes been working for peanuts, I really feel for him!
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Dee » Wed May 25, 2011 10:25 am

Well i for one am hoping that today they make the right decision and keep 558 flying :(( It means such a lot to me :(
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Kermit » Wed May 25, 2011 1:02 pm

So do I, and thousands think the same. Fingers crossed, wonder when we ll hear something ?
:(
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Re: 558 news updates

Postby Nickolas » Wed May 25, 2011 1:34 pm

I started a thread on the other side and expressed a desire that WE find out from the website rather than from any third parties..........
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