FLYING LEGENDS 2011

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FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Xplumberlives » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:53 pm

I plan to go on Saturday, is anyone else going along?
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby 10680 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:22 pm

Xplumberlives wrote:I plan to go on Saturday, is anyone else going along?


Ditto. Might not be as early as I usually am so save me a place. ;) Near the Land Warfare Hall.
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Cluny » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:31 pm

Sadly not , working saturday and cant go on sunday [the traffic that the F1 causes in and around Bicester effectively traps me in my own home , although I might cycle up to Silverstone to watch the Reds and enjoy the sound (yeah right :)) ) ] :(
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby 350wedge » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:30 pm

10680 wrote:
Xplumberlives wrote:I plan to go on Saturday, is anyone else going along?


Ditto. Might not be as early as I usually am so save me a place. ;) Near the Land Warfare Hall.


May well spot you there, I'm planning to stand on the banking behind the Land Warfare Hall on the Saturday. I'll be up the other end by Airspace on Sunday.

I'll prob have a Vulcan poloshirt on tomorrow. Expect it will be easier to spot my mate I'll be with though, rather a tall, well built bloke with a shaved head, and he'll be waving a Canon 300mm F2.8 lens round all day!!
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Mayfly » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:43 pm

Just been reading on UKar that the farmer is stopping entry to the naughty field...

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=34821

Evidently there were plenty of cars and people around but no-one in any fields today!
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:42 pm

Be interesting to see what happends to anyone who does use the naughty field.

I've never been in the field, mainly because I prefer to pay and wander around the museum.
Can understand why people choose not to pay though (I know that isn't the reason the field is used though), one of the reasons we're not going this year is the price, that and mum's been poorly since last Sunday (I gave her my lurgy =)) ) and doesn't feel up to the 5 hour round trip.

I never have worked out this "light" argument, I have a crap, broken camera, yet some of my best pics have been at Duxford shooting into the sun :)) so there :p =)) =))
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby RLN » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:08 am

I don't think it's anything to do with the light, either. A photographer will cope with it. Some people think it's clever not to pay, while others are too tight. If the farmer's serious, they will be done for trespass, hopefully.
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:29 pm

RLN wrote:I don't think it's anything to do with the light, either. A photographer will cope with it. Some people think it's clever not to pay, while others are too tight. If the farmer's serious, they will be done for trespass, hopefully.


Reading the thread on ukar, that is the reason they mostly give, that the light is better.
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Xplumberlives » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:39 am

Well the so called "NAUGHTY" field gave us a great view again with the light behind us, thanks for your wonderful comments RLN! :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

The Police were at the entrance to the field when I arrived, nice chap, I spoke with him while waiting for Gaz and Hula-Hoop to catch up. The closure of the field is a CIVIL matter and as such the police would not get involved until an argument ensued. The Policeman allowed us to enter on to the fields with the proviso that should the farmer request that we leave, we should comply! B-)

So all in all over a hundred of us of both genders and all ages watched a wonderful display right over our heads, just behind one of the Dakotas and the large fire engine and opposite 350 wedge and his tall mate! ;)
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Mayfly » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:46 am

I can't reconcile naughty fields - it's just not cricket to me! if an event is worth watching it's worth paying for.
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby RLN » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:36 am

Anytime, Xpl. I just hate freeloading when everyone else (including photographers) manage to pay. Hopefully the farmer will charge more than Duxford - how precious will the light be then?
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Sooty655 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:15 am

Mayfly wrote:I can't reconcile naughty fields - it's just not cricket to me! if an event is worth watching it's worth paying for.

Apparently the naughty fields were packed for WWW, and as the runway is N-S, the light ain't significantly different. In my book, naughty fields = free-loaders, whatever their excuse (and however cheap/expensive the tickets are).
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Mayfly » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:28 am

I don't have too much problem with someone driving past and stopping to view say 558 display then moving on - I think that's a big difference to 'free-loading' all day.

However I was pretty pi$$ed at Waddington when we were moved on for waiting on the grass verges waiting to get in to the viewing area and when I left the verges of the A15 was packed with people who had parked their cars and set up camp with tables and chairs. Where were the police then?

My biggest problem with naughty fields despite depriving the organisers of income is the excuse it will one day give the H&S and CAA the reasons they need to tighten up on the rules!
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby RLN » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:35 am

Exactly, MF. Display aircraft have to display in a defined area along the crowd line; suddenly, you have another bunch of spectators on the other side. The CAA will eventually rule that planes can do passes up and down the runway only.
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Xplumberlives » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:11 pm

And until then I will continue to visit airshows and airfields looking for the "BEST" light that all you so called experts apparently feel is not a problem and more importantly attempting to find angles that are different from the vast majority of images posted across the forums! For examples I will cite the THREE BUCCANEERS at Bruntingthorpe that nobody else had access to! At Wellesbourne I had the pleasure of 655 with the light behind me and Peter Teichmans P51D against the wonderful azure sky.

At Sywell I will be outside the fence on the approach and at Wittering I will be inside because I have access. At Duxford I will be inside when visiting the museum and outside for airshows, I could go on but wont, suffice to say that if and when the C.A.A. make the decision muted above I will happily comply!
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Gaz » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:18 pm

And who was it that emailed me THREE TIMES prior to CWJ in the hope that I could get you in for free.


You know who you are!



And it WASN'T xpl!
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Xplumberlives » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:07 am

Gaz wrote:And who was it that emailed me THREE TIMES prior to CWJ in the hope that I could get you in for free.


You know who you are!



And it WASN'T XPL!



:-o Oh dear how very controversial! :-o :-o Is there a hypocrite in the house? :-o
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Jigsaw » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:44 pm

People may have opinions (I usually keep mine to myself) but that does not mean it has to turn personal X(
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby MOD » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:28 pm

Mayfly wrote:However I was pretty pi$$ed at Waddington when we were moved on for waiting on the grass verges waiting to get in to the viewing area and when I left the verges of the A15 was packed with people who had parked their cars and set up camp with tables and chairs. Where were the police then?


I can vouch for this as I came across Pam a bit later and steam was still coming out of her ears. :D

This is a common cry these days though. The Police seem very keen to sanitize the area around an airshow or airfield beforehand when there are only a few people present but they disappear when the mob arrives and sets up camp. #026 end at Brize is a classic example. I know several people who have been parked legally, ie not in front of the crash gate and safely behind the yellow lines, who have been moved on, but when things get busy , say when the Families Day airshow starts or 558 arrives, they are nowhere to be seen.

It was the same at Kemble recently. I left early and the road adjacent to the runway was packed with people who had set up camp outside. X(

And why oh why do the police and marshals disappear just before the airshow finishes?? I can only assume because they want to get home well before the area becomes gridlocked for 3 hours. X(

ibw ;)
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Lucas1860 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:44 pm

MOD wrote:
Mayfly wrote:However I was pretty pi$$ed at Waddington when we were moved on for waiting on the grass verges waiting to get in to the viewing area and when I left the verges of the A15 was packed with people who had parked their cars and set up camp with tables and chairs. Where were the police then?


I can vouch for this as I came across Pam a bit later and steam was still coming out of her ears. :D

This is a common cry these days though. The Police seem very keen to sanitize the area around an airshow or airfield beforehand when there are only a few people present but they disappear when the mob arrives and sets up camp. #026 end at Brize is a classic example. I know several people who have been parked legally, ie not in front of the crash gate and safely behind the yellow lines, who have been moved on, but when things get busy , say when the Families Day airshow starts or 558 arrives, they are nowhere to be seen.

It was the same at Kemble recently. I left early and the road adjacent to the runway was packed with people who had set up camp outside. X(

And why oh why do the police and marshals disappear just before the airshow finishes?? I can only assume because they want to get home well before the area becomes gridlocked for 3 hours. X(

ibw ;)


Its easy to knock the Police, what you have to remember is this, the Police have their days cancelled to Police these events, they are paid to do the shift and that's it. No overtime is paid. Another aspect is this, the marshalling is more or less civilianised, this is to get the cheapest deal. You all know what the rules and regulations are, if you choose to turn up early and cause a blockage with your vehicle then so be it, but don't moan when the Police move you on. There is no favouritism when it comes to moving folk on, there will be very few officers at the location, too few to Police it correctly. Any moaning should be directed at the Waddington planners. You will find the Police are the last to leave, no rushing to get home. The traffic marshalling this year was very poor, the location does not lend itself to large volumes of vehicles all wanting to leave at the same time. Wear the shoes then make comment.
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby MOD » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:26 pm

I thought you would pick up on this Jim. ;)

The issue really is why is there no consistency?

You get moved on when there are only a few of you but when people arrive 'en masse' suddenly it's OK to park anywhere.

Do the airshow organisers not have to pay for a police presence then? That does surprise me. Surely it must be the same as a Premiership soccer match. The police don't disappear before the final whistle there - or do they?

Finally Wear the shoes then make comment. So as a taxpayer who might have paid a three figure sum to visit an airshow, I am not allowed to comment on the Police's shortcomings X(

I really don't think you meant that Jim.

ibw ;)
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Mayfly » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:13 pm

Sorry Jim - I understand where you are coming from but Ian is correct about the inconsistency -

the police moved us on 10 mins before the gates were to open and I do mean 10mins at 8.50. I don't have a problem with what they did in the morning it's why I moved on when requested but they were driving past at 4.30 when loads of people had parked up!!!! and ironically when I arrived on the Friday the policeman controlling the traffic told me to wait on the grass verge!!
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Lucas1860 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:24 pm

MOD wrote:I thought you would pick up on this Jim. ;)

The issue really is why is there no consistency?

You get moved on when there are only a few of you but when people arrive 'en masse' suddenly it's OK to park anywhere.

Do the airshow organisers not have to pay for a police presence then? That does surprise me. Surely it must be the same as a Premiership soccer match. The police don't disappear before the final whistle there - or do they?

Finally Wear the shoes then make comment. So as a taxpayer who might have paid a three figure sum to visit an airshow, I am not allowed to comment on the Police's shortcomings X(

I really don't think you meant that Jim.


Its very rare that the football clubs pay the full amount for the Police presence, some clubs are debt, yet they still have to be policed, likwise with this type of event, You have to Police it, as an organisation the organisers will pay for the cheapest way to support the event, ie civilian marshals. What usually happens is this, officers have weekly leave cancelled with notice, what this means is that they are there for the day free of charge to the event, the police numbers are maintained to answer to the public call in the area, the ones on cancelled leave are used to police the event. My argument is this, is not the shortcomings of the Police Service but the event organisers will to do the marshalling on the cheap, yet you criticize the Police. Most officers have sympathy, they will let so much go before someone higher in rank directs them to move people on, this is where you may find inconsistency, its not malice just a higher authority giving out the orders. When I left the waddington show the first officer I saw was on one of the country lanes directing traffic, the ones at the show were civilian. Police are on station until stood down, stand down only occurs when any perceived threats/congestion has passed, this can be some hours after the event. In my force officers have had leave cancelled for three local Derby matches, so if your off then your not, if your at work and want the day off then you can't. You may see a number of folk in one area then moved on, this will be when the officers have done another round and found the group. One thing to bear in mind is this, I also pay taxes and visit these shows, pay three figure sums and help the local economy, and yes you can comment.

Jim ;)

BTW. We all have a say and a right to do so, all I say is this, the man telling you to move on may just have the same interest as you and know what you want, however he may have to move you or answer why not. Its a job, we all have to tow the line and do as we are told. The only one who doesn't is the one at the top.

Nuff said now. looking forward to the weekend, hope to get some good shots, will post any decent ones I get. :)
Last edited by Sooty655 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Qote fixed for clarity
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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby MOD » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:36 pm

I do not dispute anything that you say Jim. ;) Thanks for taking the trouble to put forward your ' take' on this troublesome issue.

I am convinced that the problem is that of interpretation. Some officers use common sense but unfortunately some don't.

It would, however be interesting to know why the marshals (whoever they are) disappear just before the airshow finishes?

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Re: FLYING LEGENDS 2011

Postby Lucas1860 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:44 pm

MOD wrote:I do not dispute anything that you say Jim. ;) Thanks for taking the trouble to put forward your ' take' on this troublesome issue.

I am convinced that the problem is that of interpretation. Some officers use common sense but unfortunately some don't.

It would, however be interesting to know why the marshals (whoever they are) disappear just before the airshow finishes?

ibw


No probs mate, the marshalls get paid by the hour, that bites into any profit, and yes common sense does lack in some.

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