MotoGP

All sports discussion. WARNING: Result spoilers possibile in all threads!

Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:21 pm

There was a horrendus crash in the Moto2 race and sadly Shoya Tomizawa died as a result :(

I'm no doctor but I truly think he was dead on the track before the marshalls got to him. He was run over twice and it just looked horrific. R.I.P. Shoya.

I think I'll go back to watching the H&S obsessed F1.
I'd only just stopped watching it trough my fingers.

In other news Nicky Hayden has rubbish luck right now (and he got rid of his funky mohawk hairdo :(( ), and I would say Misano is not his favorite track as he qualified badly yesterday (14th or something) and then hit Loris Capirossi and both went out.

Pedrosa might have won but I wasn't paying any attention =)) =))
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Mayfly » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:55 pm

Ah I wondered what happened we turned the TV on just as his dates of birth & death came up on the screen .... :(

I feel for his family knowing the risks doesn't make it easier to bear. :(
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:01 pm

Watching someone die live on television is truly horrific and this accident was just that. It made me feel physically sick. I know that joe public should be aware of the risks involved in sport but there will be thousands of children watching this and I think a time delay on live broadcasts is neccesary so that they do not broadcast someone being killed. I am fully aware of how dangerous motorcycle racing is but I do not want to see a young man die and his lifeless body thrown down a racetrack and run over at 130mph.

Same goes for Burghley Horse Trials which I watched today. I did NOT want to see a young woman crushed by her horse and airlifted to hospital with serious head injuries and last year at Badminton Horse Trials a hurt and distressed horse bleeding to it's eventual death and another with a clearly broken leg being dragged away to be shot. I don't think I can actually watch either Moto GP or Horse Trials live anymore, it's just too harrowing.

Rest in Peace Shoya :(
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:31 pm

I totally agree with you, I knew it wasn't just a crash the second it happend, there wasn't anything else on TV so I had the red button on and my blood ran cold when I saw it happen.

Then in the MotoGP race I think Nicky and Loris were lucky no to have something similar happen as they both went down into the paths of other bikes and I shut my eyes, couldn't watch that again.

I do think that the BBC handled it very well though.

I feel so aweful for Scott Redding and Alex de Angelis, they'll probably think about the accident for the rest of their lives, even though it wasn't they faults and there wasn't anything they could have done :(
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:20 am

I didn't watch the main race, felt a bit queezy after watching the crash so called it a day after that. Regret turning over to watch the Horse Trials instead though!!

I think the commentary team handled it very well but as for the BBC, they should have cut the cameras to an insignificant pitlane shot or something, not focusing on Shoya and then we had to watch him being dropped by the marshalls on the stretcher as well, brought back horrible memories of watching Daijiro Kato's fatal accident on the BBC.

As you said Helen, nothing could be done, there was no time for any reaction by either following rider, exactly the same as Craig Jones' fatal BSB crash at Brands Hatch, the following riders had no time to react. Scott Redding and Alex DeAngelis, they are going to be strong lads to pull through this, I can't imagine what they are going through :(
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:40 am

If the Moto2 feed is the same as the F1 practice feed, then the beeb have no say over what the cameras show :(
And as it was the red button rather than that blonde women on the main BBC channel, they couldn't even cut to the presenters :(
Even the two guys in the com box said when they showed the replay "oh we don't need to see this again".

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them drop the strecher, I'm still speachless, I know they have to hurry before the bikes come around again, but can't they see they have a seriously inured boy there who needs treating with care :( :(
It was just the way they shoved him on the strecher that made me so mad X(
I really hope he didn't suffer to much, I honestly hope it was quick.


I thought it was class from the MotoGP guys having the flags at half mast and a muted ceremony, and Rossi/Lorenzo/Pedrosa all looked close to tears and gave very short inteviews :(

And not that it matters, but Shoya is still a "trending topic" on Twitter, so many people paying their respects to him.



I've just googled Kato btw :-o poor guy :(
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:15 am

Yeah Kato's accident was horrific and he got dropped once on the stretcher as well as being manhandled by marshalls too, today was a horrible reminder of that moreso because no red flags were brought out which is just beyond a joke with an accident like that.

Understood about the BBC, I thought there would be a central control or something where they would watch it live and could instruct cameramen to shut off their feed or at least change to a different view. I certainly know if I was a camera operator I wouldn't be filming it, sod the job, I wouldn't broadcast someones death!!

Thats what I mean about the commentators being great, their reaction was clear and heartfelt and thats what I also mean about the BBC, who the HELL decided it was a great idea to replay the fatal crash?! I just think someone has a screw loose there.

Tomizawa died as a result of massive cranial, thoracic and abdominal trauma, I really doubt he was conscious, he certainly didn't look it to me and with trauma that high I doubt he would have been aware of anything anyway. We can only hope and pray it was quick with no suffering :(

I wonder if they will retire his number (#48) like they did with Kato, I hope so as a mark of respect.
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:53 am

Yeah, he certainly wasn't moving was he :(
There was absolutly no need for a slow motion version of the crash either [-x
I know at the time they didn't know it was fatal, but still they have brains, surly they could see how nasty it was :(

There are a lot of fans complaining about the replays, so we're not alone :(
In the F1 practice session, Crofty said that the feed comes directly from FIA cameras, so I don't know if the Moto2 and 125 feed is worked the same way.

Race control should have red flagged it, even if it was just untill they had got the 3 of them clear of the track.
It would have saved them having to rush as much.

It would be a nice touch to retire it, he certainly seems to have been a very popular member of the paddock, all the quotes and interviews I've seen have said how funny he was and what a promising rider.

I just hope Scott and Alex get lots of help dealing with what happened.
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:21 pm

Shoya was very popular and indeed very funny. Highly respected rider after coming in and winning the first Moto2 race with ease yet he was so humble about success and always had a joke when interviewed. Amazing talent for just 19 and a terrible shame we won't get to see him progress through the ranks and challenge at the top as he would have been there without a doubt.

I think you are probably right regarding the cameras, I have no idea about how they broadcast these things but as you say, no need for the amount of replays including the slow motion plus the race should have been red flagged immediately. As you say, if it had then the marshalls and medics would have had time to care for him in a calm manner and not rush him out of the way of following riders.

It's all over the bike forums I am on and everyone is disgusted and saddened over what happened so no, we are not the only ones. Plus on the horsey forum I am on there are a lot of people strongly arguing the same point I made about a time delay as there are countless posts of people stating their young child was traumatised over the accidents seen.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in the minority of people that think kids should be wrapped up in cotton wool, but at the end of the day you do not take your 7 year old to an 18 rated movie at the cinema thats full of death and blood, so why should they have to see it for real on the television.

Can of worms isn't it!
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Spitfire » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:17 pm

Thumper wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am not in the minority of people that think kids should be wrapped up in cotton wool, but at the end of the day you do not take your 7 year old to an 18 rated movie at the cinema thats full of death and blood, so why should they have to see it for real on the television.

Can of worms isn't it!


Sorry to interject with a bit of reality but most kids of 7 have probably seen more death blood and gore without going to cinemas ... my wife's experience in her class is that a lot of them see their parents 18 DVDs and play 18 Games on PCs and most of them late at night too.

We are in a different age - everything is NOW - INSTANT - UP FRONT and SLO MO - REPLAY are all part of it .....and to put another spin on it doesn't it show us how dangerous riding bikes can be... as even the professionals get it wrong - and sometimes lose their lives as a result. Motorsport is dangerous and they all know that when they sign up for it. Harrowing as it may have been for the 2 lads following who hit him - they knew the risks and didn't back off just in case the bloke in front goes down - they were racing and this is sometimes the result - very sad though it is :(
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Mayfly » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:43 pm

The chances are if you watch 'dangerous' sports often enough at some time you will witness something like this very sad event. :(

As far as the TV companies are concerned their job was broadcast the event & that's what they were doing, not saying that's right or I agree with it, but is it any different to news channels showing 9/11 live as it happened or any other tragedy?

I wonder how many of those complaining didn't turn over or press the off button!
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Xplumberlives » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:03 pm

Very tragic, but as the two posts above have stated in their own way, THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT!
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TSR-2 simply got the first 3 right. ”
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:42 pm

Yup, same as me walking away at RIAT because the couple of idiots stood next to me kept getting REALLY excited when they thought something was going to crash. Clearly that's all they were there for and their disappointment at not seeing a crash was obvious to a lot of people.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't expect them to not show any accidents or anything like that but to keep broadcasting someones death rather than switch to a different view and to then reply it over and over is just not necessary.

We are all entitled to an opinion and all of us won't agree, that's life.
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:50 pm

Maybe other people like to see the crashes, but speaking personally, It's taken me 7 races to actually start enjoying MotoGP.
Just watching them terrifies me, and it's had a real affect on me seeing what happend to Shoya.
Just like it took me 13 years to start watching F1 again, I'm not sure I want to watch the next race, as I say, that;s just me, I'm a very very sensetive person and take everything to heart.

It can't be good when even the two chaps doing the comentary say they don't want to see another raplay.
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Olicat » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:54 pm

Thumper wrote:Yup, same as me walking away at RIAT because the couple of idiots stood next to me kept getting REALLY excited when they thought something was going to crash. Clearly that's all they were there for and their disappointment at not seeing a crash was obvious to a lot of people.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't expect them to not show any accidents or anything like that but to keep broadcasting someones death rather than switch to a different view and to then reply it over and over is just not necessary.

We are all entitled to an opinion and all of us won't agree, that's life.


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now that is not on
why would you get excited?
when i was 8 or 9 i watched Yak-52 g-lena come down at bournemouth and i was only exited for a second because i was young and didnt realise that both inside had died a quite frightening death really. now i understand how horrible they mustve felt when it was dropping nose first at vertical for the 100 or so feet that it was at when the controls jammed (as i understand).
Fly fast jets and/or C130s over my house please, I'm bored!

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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:17 pm

I think thats it Oli, I think naturally when you are a child you do not understand fully that an accident can be fatal. At that age you are (generally) not truly aware of life and death and how dangerous things are and that they can result in people dying and seeing a plane crash is a very spectacular thing, in some ways exciting.

I was 13 when I saw Senna's fatal crash and it didn't effect me seeing it because I did not understand that someone would die from that. However, when my Dad turned the television off and left the room in tears I knew that something was seriously wrong as I had NEVER seen my Dad cry. My Dad was a huge Senna fan and had followed his entire career, attending as many races as possible to see him race in person, he was deeply upset by Senna's death and that is when he stopped taking me to motorsport races, he just couldn't watch anymore. I own the Aryton Senna DVD and I never fail to cry when I watch it for many reasons.

As you grow up you see more and learn more and you can learn to recognise when someone is dead/dying/suffering. Unfortunately for some people they think death or serious injury is entertainment. They are the type of people that own lots of DVD's full of accident compilations and are also the types that have no interest in aviation but will go to an airshow hoping to see an accident.

Sad but true.
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:27 pm

Thumper wrote:I think thats it Oli, I think naturally when you are a child you do not understand fully that an accident can be fatal. At that age you are (generally) not truly aware of life and death and how dangerous things are and that they can result in people dying and seeing a plane crash is a very spectacular thing, in some ways exciting.

I was 13 when I saw Senna's fatal crash and it didn't effect me seeing it because I did not understand that someone would die from that. However, when my Dad turned the television off and left the room in tears I knew that something was seriously wrong as I had NEVER seen my Dad cry. My Dad was a huge Senna fan and had followed his entire career, attending as many races as possible to see him race in person, he was deeply upset by Senna's death and that is when he stopped taking me to motorsport races, he just couldn't watch anymore. I own the Aryton Senna DVD and I never fail to cry when I watch it for many reasons.

As you grow up you see more and learn more and you can learn to recognise when someone is dead/dying/suffering. Unfortunately for some people they think death or serious injury is entertainment. They are the type of people that own lots of DVD's full of accident compilations and are also the types that have no interest in aviation but will go to an airshow hoping to see an accident.

Sad but true.


Are we realated =)) =))
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:31 pm

=)) Yes, but that means you inherit Stiggy as well coz he's my twin =))
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:35 pm

Thumper wrote:=)) Yes, but that means you inherit Stiggy as well coz he's my twin =))


Woo hoo, I always wanted siblings =)) =))
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:50 pm

I always wanted a younger sister too so that's it now, it's a done deal... when's dinner sis? =))
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:31 pm

=)) =))
Will Maryland cookies do? =)) =))
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:08 pm

Oooo yes my favourite! I have Foxes Butter Crinkles to add to that :D

Some very interesting statements have been released today regarding the accident as follows:


The prosecutor of Rimini has reportedly launched an investigation into the death of Shoya Tomizawa following the Moto2 Grand Prix at Misano.

According to the Italian ANSA news agency, Paolo Giovagnoli will begin an inquest into the 19-year-old's tragic death in a move that could also see criminal charges being brought.

Tomizawa crashed on lap 12 of the race into the path of Alex de Angelis and Scott Redding, but the race was not stopped as track marshals swiftly stretchered him off the circuit.

However, Tomizawa was then accidentally dropped by a marshal when they stumbled whilst carrying through the gravel.

With an impending autopsy set to reveal exactly what contributed to his death, ANSA says Giovagnoli is considering bringing charges to individuals that are yet to be identified.

The news comes after MotoGP officials defended the decision not to stop the race to allow Tomizawa to receive treatment at the track, claiming they were better equipped to deal with his serious injuries behind the scenes.



And another statement:


MotoGP officials explain Tomizawa medical treatment
When an F1 driver is hurt in a serious accident - for example Felipe Massa's head injury at Hungary 2009 – the session is interrupted (either by a safety car or red flags) and the injured undergo treatment at the scene before being moved.

In Motorcycle Grand Prix, badly injured riders are often moved immediately - as was the case with Shoya Tomizawa in Sunday's Moto2 race, where the Japanese tragically suffered fatal injuries.

It was also the case at Catalunya earlier this year, when Carmelo Morales was quickly taken away from the scene of a huge finish line fall. Morales was later diagnosed with vertebra damage.

Questions have been raised since Sunday's accident as to why the Moto2 race wasn't stopped after Tomizawa's accident, which left the Japanese lying motionless in the track after being hit by two riders.

After all, the Moto2 race at Indianapolis the previous weekend had been red flagged for a far more innocuous incident.

During a special press conference at Misano on Sunday, following the news of Tomizawa's death in hospital several hours after his fall, officials explained that the race wasn't stopped because marshals had moved all the riders and machines before the leaders reached the scene of the accident on the following lap.

But should Tomizawa - and Scott Redding, who sustained a back laceration - have been moved so quickly?

MotoGP Doctor Claudio Macchiagodena was asked that very question at the press conference:

"We don't wait for another problem or more [with the patient]... Many times it is very important to quickly have support. In this situation if you remove quickly, in my opinion, you have more possibility [to help the patient]. Also the paramedics and doctors don't have motorbikes [near them when they are working] on the track. [Away from the track] is more quiet for them to work very well [on the patient]."

Marshals carrying Tomizawa's stretcher seemed to drop one corner of it onto the ground as they walked though the gravel.

After he had reached the ambulance, Tomizawa was treated as follows:

"Behind the track protection we had one ambulance with the respirator inside and we started immediately all the intensive care for him," said Macchiagodena. "I didn't ask for the red flag because I didn't need it.

"After the rider came to the medical centre I had some people asking me why it took a lot of time [for the ambulance to reach the medical centre]. The intensive care started behind the protection of the track. Normally when you have a broken arm the ambulance is the same as a taxi, where you put the rider inside and send him quickly. Now it was very important to have the ventilation and two doctors.

"When he arrived at the medical centre his condition was critical, and we continued the intensive care. We had a lot of doctors but the situation was critical, we had a process for respiration. We checked an abdominal trauma with the scanner because it was a very serious situation not just for the cranial trauma, but for the chest and abdominal.

"He suffered a heart trauma and the best option was to transfer him to hospital in Riccione because it's very close and because we have two doctors in the ambulance who continued the respiration process, and to go by helicopter was very far and not possible for this process. When he arrived in hospital we continued for ten minutes or more... but in the end nothing could be changed for Tomizawa."

The question as to why the following MotoGP race went ahead and was not cancelled as a mark of respect was simple to answer.

"We didn't know until 2.20pm [20 minutes after the start of the MotoGP race] that unfortunately Tomizawa passed away," said Dorna's Javier Alonso.

Tomizawa's fatal injuries were caused by being hit at high speed by other riders, moments after he had fallen off the back of his motorcycle.

Such accidents are impossible to prevent and IRTA safety representative Franco Uncini said that the key to reducing rider injuries in such incidents is through the future development of better protective equipment.

"We can say that what happened was nothing to do with the safety. These kinds of injuries unfortunately could happen at any time," said the former racer. "With the technology we have at this moment it's very difficult to solve this problem, but we are trying to work on this and try and have something that in the future will help us have less damage in this kind of incident.”
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Nickolas » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:17 pm

Sorry but I personally Can't agree with the Italians.

1st job after a crash is to secure the safety of the injured driver / rider. You don't just drag them out of the way so the racing can continue. How much of his further trauma was as a result of him being handled (rather poorly it seems) rather than cold calm calculated assessment of the situation...........

Looks like money was the cause of 'keep the show running'...........

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Re: MotoGP

Postby Thumper » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:35 pm

I agree that with a major trauma speed is of the essence but at the same time so is forward planning and care which is what was lacking here.

It seems that everyone just panicked and there are a lot of inconsistencies in the stories. One report says that when he arrived at the hospital within 10 minutes they realised there was nothing they could do for him and he passed away. Another report states that he was at the hospital for several hours before he succumbed to his injuries.

Putting the injured riders aside for one moment, there is also the fact that there could have been oil and debris on the circuit which could have posed a serious risk to the other riders that were continuing and had a bike gone down on it then that would have put the injured riders, medics and marshalls at risk along with the remaining riders on the track.

Misano is a big circuit and the riders were all fairly bunched up at the time of the crash so a red flag would have been easy to show and the riders would have all slowed and returned to the pits with no problems. Why this approach was not taken when it has been for lesser incidents is illogical.
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Re: MotoGP

Postby Hihonyr8811 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:47 pm

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2010/Tomi ... +announced :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

Also

http://twitpic.com/2p7hrx/full
http://twitpic.com/2p7hkk/full
:ymapplause: :ymapplause:

Quali is on the red button tomorrow at 11:50
The 125 and Moto2 quali might be on the red button before however my free view box isn't playing nice and showing the listings ~x( ~x(
Main race BBC2 Sunday 12:30, although I might record it and watch BBC1 instead.
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