Church Fenton airshow

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Church Fenton airshow

Postby Ray C » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:03 am

I note we have a new Northern airshow this September @ former RAF Fenton,
I for one hope to support and attend, anyone out there considering.....?
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Yorkie » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:08 pm

No Point now the aircraft will by Flypast only.

no displays means not worth going to airshow, can see aircraft flying past at LBIA

Shame I was looking forward to this.

:(
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Minty4371 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:28 pm

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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Mayfly » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:32 am

Yorkie wrote:No Point now the aircraft will by Flypast only.

no displays means not worth going to airshow, can see aircraft flying past at LBIA

Shame I was looking forward to this.

:(



I believe it's understandable that the CAA have been seen to act. Whether or not it's an over reaction to ban all high energy moves from vintage jets or not until further notice is a matter of personal opinion but I can't see they had any choice.

558 won't be affected much by the way as she doesn't have high energy moves in her display.

However what I would say is if you wish any [overland] air show to return next year they need your support. It costs a fortune to host them if they don't get support at this restrictive time they may not have the finances to return another year.
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Sooty655 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:04 am

Mayfly wrote:
Yorkie wrote:No Point now the aircraft will by Flypast only.

no displays means not worth going to airshow, can see aircraft flying past at LBIA

Shame I was looking forward to this.

:(



I believe it's understandable that the CAA have been seen to act. Whether or not it's an over reaction to ban all high energy moves from vintage jets or not until further notice is a matter of personal opinion but I can't see they had any choice.

558 won't affected much by the way as she doesn't have high energy moves in her display.

However what I would say is if you wish any [overland] air show to return next year they need your support. It's costs a fortune to host them if they don't get support at this restrictive time they may not have the finances to return another year.

I agree with MF ~ after Shoreham this was inevitable. There will still be the opportunity to see lots of historic aircraft flying, even though "stunts" are now banned.

As for LBIA, I find 737s get boring after the first dozen. :p
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Yorkie » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:19 am

Whilst I do agree that the CAA has to be 'seen' to react. it appears to be a complete knee jerk reaction.

There are a few questions that need answering:

* the ban applies to jets - so does a prop plane make less of a mess if god forbid this happens again?
* why are the reds not affected as their aircraft are vintage (as are half the RAF aircraft)
* what constitutes a high energy move? I thought a power climb and wingover would be just that and that is a big part of her show.

I feel for the families of both the victims on the road and that of the pilot, but we won't know what happened for months unless the pilot wakes up and starts talking (even if he is strong enough physically, mentally that's going to be tougher). the CAA needed to stand by display safety and stand strong and say lessons will be learnt (and they inevitably will), I believe that this years display will be Shoreham's last display over land.

With friends who are ex display pilots and having met Andy a few times I have seen first hand how professional these guys are.

@sooty655 you do get the odd A330 too ;)
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Mayfly » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:11 pm

A lot of 'Joe Public are under the impression that a pilot turns up with their aircraft and simply says I'll do a display. We know that is not the case, the fact is the first and foremost rule from display pilots, display authorisers, venues and CAA is 'Is it safe?'

What happened Saturday is a tragic event and the first where a non-participant death has occurred since 1953. To me that already speaks volumes about the professionalism of all involved. IMHO it is best to shut down the area of display flying that is the cause for concern [in this case all vintage jets, they grounded Hunters on Saturday] before there were calls to ban all air shows.

The Reds are military and don't come under the CAA rules in the same way 558 or any other permit to fly aircraft will.
Not sure what constitutes a high energy move or what what is classed as vintage but I guess those involved will be told they are affected officially. In general prop aircraft are less energetic than jets. Yes they can still make a mess but personally I hope what the CAA have done so far allows them and the AAIB to get with the task of finding out exactly happened and take steps to prevent it happening again rather than fighting rear guard actions that call for even more severe reactions.

Edit: This is a good article and has been published by the telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... shows.html
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Yorkie » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:37 pm

Mayfly wrote:A lot of 'Joe Public are under the impression that a pilot turns up with their aircraft and simply says I'll do a display. We know that is not the case, the fact is the first and foremost rule from display pilots, display authorisers, venues and CAA is 'Is it safe?'

What happened Saturday is a tragic event and the first where a non-participant death has occurred since 1953. To me that already speaks volumes about the professionalism of all involved. IMHO it is best to shut down the area of display flying that is the cause for concern [in this case all vintage jets, they grounded Hunters on Saturday] before there were calls to ban all air shows.

The Reds are military and don't come under the CAA rules in the same way 558 or any other permit to fly aircraft will.
Not sure what constitutes a high energy move or what what is classed as vintage but I guess those involved will be told they are affected officially. In general prop aircraft are less energetic than jets. Yes they can still make a mess but personally I hope what the CAA have done so far allows them and the AAIB to get with the task of finding out exactly happened and take steps to prevent it happening again rather than fighting rear guard actions that call for even more severe reactions.

Edit: This is a good article and has been published by the telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... shows.html


Thanks Mayfly

great reply, I may be naïve because I have seen first hand that I assume everyone knows what goes into the displays.

Most displays I have been to have the flight line over/just behind the runway but within the airfield or over the sea. I assume so the pilot has a 'safe' area in case something goes wrong away from the crowd. I know that is why they don't overfly the crowd (apart from the reds individually). without wanting to pre-emp the CAA that appeared to be missing at Shoreham the 'safe' area included the road 'the safest area there was at that time flying that particular route' as the aircraft also appeared to me on a normal approach path into shoreham, coming in from the other side means overflying residential areas.

another 100 yards and the aircraft was on grass, off the road.

I'm not getting into an open conversation about what has happened, I think the less speculated on forums the better for this, just wanted to make the point, i also don't know Shoreham very well so there may also be reasons for why and how.

at the end of the day though the guys flying and making sure the airshows happen are a dedicated bunch and will do everything in there powers to continue to make airshows safe.
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby 10680 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:05 pm

This is a very good piece.

http://www.airshows.co.uk/blogs/editors/

I was there on Saturday but was working in a marquee at the time, others were outside on a break.

Shoreham Airport is 10 minutes from home so I know it well. Previous years I have spent a day in and a day out watching the airshow. Often at the site of the crash.

Something went badly wrong. I don't know what happened. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the "journalists" don't. I've had various thoughts but I wouldn't commit them to print.

The reporting has ranged from innacurate to sensationalist.

All I would say is I didn't understand the (apparent) direction of flight.
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Mayfly » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:06 pm

There are a few good articles about written by those who have experience and not just jobbing journalists who write sensational stuff with the sole aim of supporting their income.
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Aceyone » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:17 pm

It was and still is a very tragic event,I feel for all those poor people who are affected by this accident,as Pam pointed out .it's the first fatality of anyone ,other than pilots ,( and that's bad enough )since 1953,which shows that someone is doing something right ,if the unfortunate pilot had come down seconds earlier or later the outcome probably would not have resulted in so many deaths and we would just be hoping the pilot make a full recovery !
There are risks in all walks of life ,all we can do is try and negate them as much as possible,whilst I don't fully support the CAA's stance I realise that they must be seen to do something,mainly to appease an ignorant and hostile press,personally I have always felt safe at airshows and I will be at Dunsfold on Saturday ,supporting the organisers,volunteers and especially the Pilots who are prepared to put themselves out for our entertainment .
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby 10680 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:28 pm

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/13623723 ... s_at_show/

Our local rag!!!

Basically they seem (together with other stories) to say the organisers knew it was dangerous and there should never be another show.
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Re: Church Fenton airshow

Postby Mayfly » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:39 pm

This may answer some questions about what the CAA deem as 'vintage' aircraft

from para 1.2
The scope of this Safety Notice is applicable to all ex-military jet aircraft operated under CAA
CAP 632 “Operation of Permit-to-Fly Ex-Military Aircraft on the UK Register” and civilian
foreign registered ex-military jets. Other types of aircraft are unaffected.

https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SN2015003Corrected.pdf
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